Sherpas Killed in Avalanche on Mt Everest

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Re: Sherpas Killed in Avalanche on Mt Everest

Postby icefest » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 8:25 am

sorry wayno, Typo. - corrected.
Men wanted for hazardous journey. Low wages, bitter cold, long hours of complete darkness. Safe return doubtful.
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Sherpas Killed in Avalanche on Mt Everest

Postby GPSGuided » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 9:06 am

Market demand demonstrates that the Nepal price is still too low to keep polluting mountaineers away. Should go even higher! With only one Everest on the planet, they can even run auctions for 100 places in a year and see where the market equilibrium is. LOL
Last edited by GPSGuided on Tue 29 Apr, 2014 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sherpas Killed in Avalanche on Mt Everest

Postby wayno » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 9:08 am

GPSGuided wrote:Market demand demonstrates that the Nepal price is still too low to keep polluting mountaineers away. Should go even higher!


these comments might be better on another thread, some respect should be shown to the sherpas who have lost their lives working in the pay of everest mountain companies...
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Re: Sherpas Killed in Avalanche on Mt Everest

Postby GPSGuided » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 9:15 am

wayno wrote:these comments might be better on another thread, some respect should be shown to the sherpas who have lost their lives working in the pay of everest mountain companies...

Perfectly legitimate comments. The foreign mountaineers should pay for the social and professional well beings of the sherpas they engage. That's respect. Just heard of an ABC radio segment yesterday that talked about how there's a lack of credit on the names of those who summits. It's always the name of foreign climbers while the sherpas are largely lumped behind and often anonymously. Time to recognise the central and critical role of sherpas and be treated accordingly.
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Re: Sherpas Killed in Avalanche on Mt Everest

Postby Gadgetgeek » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 10:43 am

radson wrote: Why do you think Everest on Nepal is that unclean? With the garbage deposits and money paid for empty o2 bottles. Everest is nothing like those pics of the 90's. Compare it to other Himalayan mountains and Everest is pristine.

I've never been there, so all I know is coverage shown on the tv and inter-toobs. I'm not trying to compare it to anything. My thought is that if the sherpas were supported by something other than climbers, they could do what I've been told they want to do, and that is remove the bodies, and generally clean up. By having to focus on the narrow window when they can get climbers up, it prevents them from doing that work. If other mountains are also covered in trash, we should be working on cleaning them up as well. I just feel that should be a higher priority than getting climbers back on the mountain. I have no interest in taking the income that the sherpas make away. But we do sort of have a responsibility to make sure that the industry is sustainable, and adequately compensates the Sherpa people as a whole.
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Re: Sherpas Killed in Avalanche on Mt Everest

Postby icefest » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 11:30 am

GPSGuided wrote:
wayno wrote:these comments might be better on another thread, some respect should be shown to the sherpas who have lost their lives working in the pay of everest mountain companies...

Perfectly legitimate comments. The foreign mountaineers should pay for the social and professional well beings of the sherpas they engage. That's respect. Just heard of an ABC radio segment yesterday that talked about how there's a lack of credit on the names of those who summits. It's always the name of foreign climbers while the sherpas are largely lumped behind and often anonymously. Time to recognise the central and critical role of sherpas and be treated accordingly.


I agree with GPSG here - increase fees with a higher sum going to the sherpa. Less total mountaineers will results in fewer danger trips over the Khumbu icefall. Most of all, we should listen to what the sherpas want rather than do what we think best.
Expressing sympathy and ignoring the reason for the disaster is much more disrespectful IMHO. (Empathy is better than sympathy).
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Re: Sherpas Killed in Avalanche on Mt Everest

Postby radson » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 3:58 pm

The foreign mountaineers should pay for the social and professional well beings of the sherpas they engage.


Thats a very lofty standard. Do you do that to every person you engage with overseas and every foreign product you buy. I do agree though that due to the incredibly high risks involved to sherpas that much more can be done by foreign climbers towards lobbying changes in the current culture of climbing in the Himalayas. .

Sherpas do have a choice of whether or not to climb Everest. Most Sherpas have not climbed Everest. I have seen super excited sherpas who have been promoted from camp boy to load sherpa. There is prestige in climbing Everest for Sherpas as well as foreigners. I have seen the super swagger and cockiness of some sherpas who have climbed Everest 7-11 times.

I totally agree that much more pressure should be applied to the government regime that handles insurance for Sherpas. But Nepal is basically a failed state and everyone knows that the fees paid by climbers is mostly ending up in offshore bank accounts. Doesn't make the situation any better but thats whats happening.

To lower the risk of sherpas, I think a quota should be made on trips through the icefall. I have no idea of how this would be implemented except if it was agreed on by all parties. Lets say a maximum of 4 trips through the icefall (and 4 down) this would reduce exposure, reduce equipment on the mountain and increase the level of experience and competency required of foreign climbers.
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Re: Sherpas Killed in Avalanche on Mt Everest

Postby GPSGuided » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 4:10 pm

radson wrote:
The foreign mountaineers should pay for the social and professional well beings of the sherpas they engage.

Thats a very lofty standard.

Lofty standard is not an issue if it provides a general direction to the establishment of policies and practices. In any case, the reference to "foreign mountaineers" here was used generically to contrast with government responsibilities. No problem with the climbing charges applied by the government, that being a separate expense that should be forked out privately for the welfare of the Sherpas engaged.
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Re: Sherpas Killed in Avalanche on Mt Everest

Postby wayno » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 5:50 pm

fees can vary massively between different guiding companies, the cheapest outfits are less likely to be spending more than the minimum on the sherpas... thats not to say the more expensive outfits are necessarily going to spend any more on sherpas and their welfare, but it increases the chances they will be spending more on them.
one guide melissa arnot had already setup an insuance fund to help cover sherpas after she lost one of her sherpas in an accident http://www.thejuniperfund.org/
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Re: Sherpas Killed in Avalanche on Mt Everest

Postby radson » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 6:15 pm

wayno wrote:fees can vary massively between different guiding companies, the cheapest outfits are less likely to be spending more than the minimum on the sherpas... thats not to say the more expensive outfits are necessarily going to spend any more on sherpas and their welfare, but it increases the chances they will be spending more on them.
one guide melissa arnot had already setup an insurance fund to help cover sherpas after she lost one of her sherpas in an accident http://www.thejuniperfund.org/


Yeah, I asked Sherpas who was paying the best and they were saying at the time it was Jagged Globe. Also Sherpa is not an interchangeable unit. Like any market place, income is directly correlated to demand of services. A sherpa who can lug stuff to camp 2 is in a different category to a sherpa who can fix lines to the summit and/or has great english/french/german/japanese profieincy, medical training, client skills etc etc .

I had a chat with Melissa in Namche late last year as were going to be trying Cholatse at the same time. I have a lot of respect for that woman.
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Re: Sherpas Killed in Avalanche on Mt Everest

Postby wayno » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 6:19 pm

yes, melissa really put herself on the line when she stood up to dozens of angry sherpas last year when they were baying for the blood of simone moro, Ueli steck, and a third chap who they had clashed with when tehy were fixing ropes. rocks were being thrown, they were being assaulted. she probably prevented at least more violence or possible murder...
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Re: Sherpas Killed in Avalanche on Mt Everest

Postby radson » Tue 29 Apr, 2014 6:44 pm

third chap was jon griffiths. You should check out his wonderful website at alpine exposures.

I believe your fellow Kiwi Marty Schmidt RIP was also instrumental in reducing tensions in that incident.
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Re: Sherpas Killed in Avalanche on Mt Everest

Postby wayno » Thu 01 May, 2014 2:36 pm

As climbers and as readers of mountain literature, we're also familiar with attempts to communicate the realities behind the Everest Myth. We've seen decades of accounts about the crowds of clients on the normal routes and about the extensive reliance on the ropes fixed, the camps placed, the oxygen bottles carried and the loads hauled by local workers. Some of us have argued in print and online that this form of "totally supported" ascent is not "climbing," that genuine mountaineering involves more direct contact with the features of the mountain, and that the "spirit of alpinism" is about respect for the natural world, not its dominion. In 2008 the French alpinist Patrick Wagnon summed up this view in an impassioned editorial for Montagnes Magazine:

"I'm not seeking, here, to advocate an elitist discourse...but rather a return to humility, in which it's up to the climber to adapt himself to choosing an objective within his abilities, and not to the mountain to be rendered more accessible."


http://alpinist.com/doc/web14s/wfeature-everest-myth
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Discovery Channel: Everest Avalanche Tragedy

Postby wayno » Wed 07 May, 2014 6:23 pm

Discovery Channel: Everest Avalanche Tragedy
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Re: Sherpas Killed in Avalanche on Mt Everest

Postby wayno » Wed 04 Jun, 2014 6:57 pm

the first of Himalayan Experience's russell brice's detailed reports on the 2014 everest season

http://us4.campaign-archive1.com/?u=4d5 ... 92a971952c
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Alan Arnettes Excellent Summary of the 2014 season on Everes

Postby wayno » Tue 10 Jun, 2014 3:35 pm

Alan Arnettes Excellent Summary of the 2014 season on Everest

http://www.alanarnette.com/blog/2014/06 ... l-tragedy/
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Re: Sherpas Killed in Avalanche on Mt Everest

Postby radson » Wed 11 Jun, 2014 6:26 pm

Just got around to reading Alan's summary of the 2014 season. Very nuanced and well worth a read .
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