Private Property signs on Corang Loop

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NSW & ACT specific bushwalking discussion. Please avoid publishing details of access to sensitive areas with no tracks.

Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby potato » Thu 01 Oct, 2020 10:14 am

I would argue that this boundary is a natural boundary as defined here: https://rg-guidelines.nswlrs.com.au/dep ... definition

NSW Parks would be aware of this. While we can no longer use the campsite, we still have legal access to the pool from the north bank.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby ribuck » Fri 02 Oct, 2020 12:44 am

That same document says that where a property fronts non-tidal water, there is a presumption (unless proven otherwise) that the property includes the stream bed to the centreline of the watercourse.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Grabeach » Fri 02 Oct, 2020 7:52 am

I doubt that that there is a rule that says a boundary must be 'natural'. I'm sure someone mentioned previously, and what is shown on SIX (NSW Gov't), that the boundary is 20m or so to the north of the river.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby potato » Fri 02 Oct, 2020 9:58 am

If you have done any mapping professionally, you would know that due to mapping errors and resources, lines on a map are an estimate of the survey. This is why surveyors still have a job and the legislation relies on guidelines like those in my other post.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby puredingo » Fri 02 Oct, 2020 10:37 am

Jesus! This is getting quite complicated...and pedantic. Lucky none of these restrictions concern me, that would be annoying.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Warin » Fri 02 Oct, 2020 11:56 am

puredingo wrote:Jesus! This is getting quite complicated...and pedantic.


That is what happens when you get close to a 'boundary' and want to use the last yard. Like swimming in a river that looks like it might be the boundary.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby davidp » Fri 02 Oct, 2020 4:56 pm

Thanks for your support everyone. Any information anyone can find out is appreciated. Also if anyone has any photos from many years ago please post them on the Facebook group and here. We want to prove that people have been visiting this area for half a century. The Facebook group Keep Corang Open! Now has 80 members which demonstrates the level of community support. We are making enquiries of council and trying to find out the contact details for the owner. We will keep this blog and the fb group informed. In the meantime please keep asking your friends quietly to join the fb group so they can stay informed.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby ribuck » Fri 02 Oct, 2020 7:52 pm

davidp wrote:We are ... trying to find out the contact details for the owner.

When we contact the owner, we can ask what they will sell for. Most people have some price that would make it worthwhile. I would fundraise for that.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby davidp » Fri 02 Oct, 2020 9:46 pm

Thanks that is a great idea . Thanks for the offer.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Huntsman247 » Fri 02 Oct, 2020 11:04 pm

David, best contact the local ranger. I believe he has contact with the owners. Phone call to the nowra NPWS office will point you to the right direction.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby davidp » Wed 28 Oct, 2020 9:50 pm

After a bit of local exploration I managed to find a neighbour to whom I gave my number. He kindly agreed to pass it on to the new owner. The new owner rang me (on a "private" number) and we had a 15 minute chat which was cordial. Unfortunately I could not persuade her to agree to a meeting or even to leave a contact number. Does anyone have any suggestions as to the next step? Does anyone want to help me take this forward? The facebook group 'Keep Corang Open!" now has over 100 members which is good as we have not promoted it hard. I definitely do not want to get the owner offside. So where to from here? council enquiries have drawn a blank so far.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby ribuck » Wed 28 Oct, 2020 11:12 pm

Nice work, davidp.

Did the owner give any idea of their plans for the property, or if the Corang Lagoon area is what they are really after, or perhaps the lagoon is incidental to the rest of the property and they are just asserting private property rights over the whole lot for completeness?
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby wildwanderer » Thu 29 Oct, 2020 8:34 am

EDIT [Deleted idea]

on second thoughts this idea was dumb in more ways than one. :lol:
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby GregG » Thu 29 Oct, 2020 10:42 am

wildwanderer wrote:EDIT [Deleted idea]

on second thoughts this idea was dumb in more ways than one. :lol:

If it was the same idea I had Wildwanderer, yes it was dumb. Understandable under the circumstances though.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby GregG » Thu 29 Oct, 2020 10:49 am

It is quite possible that the person who now owns the property is unaware of the angst they are causing the many people who have previously enjoyed and cared for this small portion of their estate and therefore no malice or disrespect or perception of greed is intended on their part. The shroud of secrecy and lack of any communication is the frustrating part and may be making the issue worse than it really needs to be.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby sandym » Fri 30 Oct, 2020 1:00 pm

I think this is really tough. Land owners have, even more so now, concerns about fires getting out of hand. And, although you say that people have enjoyed and cared for Corang Lagoon, there are fire pits everywhere and it only takes one camp fire to get out of control and their property burns. I am sorry to sound jaded but, although you and many others may practice "leave no trace" the reality is people are careless with fires and garbage and toilet waste.

The last two walks we did in the Budawangs we were way back in the bush and we found broken bottles, ugly campfire pits, and feces and toilet paper everywhere. And this was at two separate locations both of which take a full day to walk into. The age of careful and respectful bushwalkers seems to be sadly gone.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby GregG » Fri 30 Oct, 2020 2:10 pm

sandym wrote:I think this is really tough. Land owners have, even more so now, concerns about fires getting out of hand. And, although you say that people have enjoyed and cared for Corang Lagoon, there are fire pits everywhere and it only takes one camp fire to get out of control and their property burns. I am sorry to sound jaded but, although you and many others may practice "leave no trace" the reality is people are careless with fires and garbage and toilet waste.

The last two walks we did in the Budawangs we were way back in the bush and we found broken bottles, ugly campfire pits, and feces and toilet paper everywhere. And this was at two separate locations both of which take a full day to walk into. The age of careful and respectful bushwalkers seems to be sadly gone.

So, just give up?
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby sandym » Fri 30 Oct, 2020 2:35 pm

I don't have a Facebook account so I don't know what the actual goal is. If it is the ability to use the area to camp, and the land is actually private, I just don't see how that is going to work. The land owner can easily hide behind various council regulations concerning camping, ie. toilet arrangements etc.

And, from a land owner perspective, there is no incentive and a lot of disincentives to have people camping at the lagoon.

In my opinion, best case is that the walking track remains open so that people can walk the Corang Circuit. In that instance, Parks needs to be involved in negotiating some kind of access or simply moving the trail a few hundred metres so it is outside of the private property zone.

I am concerned about this as with the Sassafras access closed, getting into the Budawangs, which must be one of NSW's premier wilderness locations, is steadily getting harder and harder.

From a broader perspective, I also feel that certain activities, and I count bushwalking and rock climbing among those activities are increasingly marginalised in Australia, likely because the number of people engaged in them is small and they aren't big money generators. The various parks departments seem more concerned with turning the parks into money spinners and less concerned with people having access to wild places.

I am also a rock climber and have been horrified to watch as climbing has been banned in massive areas of the Grampians and now many areas of Arapiles. In fact, I find it so depressing that I don't even follow it anymore as I just feel powerless.

So, not give up, but approach Parks about negotiating a walking access route similar to the one at Red Ground or perhaps the marking of a new track.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Twiggy94 » Tue 03 Nov, 2020 11:18 am

Hi all,

I walked the Corang Arch loop a few years back and it was great. We stayed at the Corang Lagoon campsite and we loved it. It is very disappointing to see it appears to be closed now. However I do have a question. With this section of the track closed off, is there any access issues to the rest of the walk? skimming the chat it looks like the Corang arch and the rest of the track appear to still be accessible, with only the area on the private land now inaccessible. Is this correct?

If so I suppose we can still access the Budawangs and all the other lovely areas, its just was was a loop is now an 'out and back' walk instead. Is this the correct interpretation?
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Walk_fat boy_walk » Tue 03 Nov, 2020 1:43 pm

Twiggy94 wrote:Hi all,

I walked the Corang Arch loop a few years back and it was great. We stayed at the Corang Lagoon campsite and we loved it. It is very disappointing to see it appears to be closed now. However I do have a question. With this section of the track closed off, is there any access issues to the rest of the walk? skimming the chat it looks like the Corang arch and the rest of the track appear to still be accessible, with only the area on the private land now inaccessible. Is this correct?

Yeh that's correct. It's not so much an area access issue (such as is currently the case at Nerriga and Sassafras, which is even more concerning IMO) but denial of access to a particularly nice spot and campsite. It doesn't preclude doing what is known as the "corang loop", given you can still just walk around the denied area, but essentially places the lagoon off limits.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Twiggy94 » Tue 03 Nov, 2020 3:31 pm

OK, phew, that's a relief. It would have been awful if you couldn't get to the arch and the other lovely areas.
Agree, it is a real shame the Corang Lagoon is now off-limits, but I am a little bit relieved that essentially the rest of the walk is unaffected.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby sandym » Tue 03 Nov, 2020 7:44 pm

We just went into the Budawangs via the Nerriga access and no problems there. That is, if you call the access off Meangora Road, the Nerriga access.

Alum Fire Trail is marked as closed due to the fires but not sure why that is.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Walk_fat boy_walk » Tue 03 Nov, 2020 9:12 pm

Twiggy94 wrote:OK, phew, that's a relief. It would have been awful if you couldn't get to the arch and the other lovely areas.
Agree, it is a real shame the Corang Lagoon is now off-limits, but I am a little bit relieved that essentially the rest of the walk is unaffected.
Yeh and the cascades are still accessible from canowie brook so not the end of the world

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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby davidp » Tue 08 Dec, 2020 9:31 am

Unfortunately we can not really breathe a sigh of relief at this stage. If this is private land there is the potential for a road to be constructed into this area, as well as houses and more fences which would all have an impact on the wilderness and other natural values of the Corang Lagoon area. If anyone would like to attend a small meeting with the local council on this matter please let me know by PM . Also please join the facebook group "Keep Corang Open!" to stay informed .
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby johnf » Tue 08 Dec, 2020 9:19 pm

While some of the ground is cleared from the fires, someone should tape a route around the edge of the NP/Private boundary so at least a circuit is possible.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby davidp » Wed 09 Dec, 2020 7:41 am

Whilst that would be easy to do There is no urgency For that to be done and effectively that would leave the lagoon area at even greater risk of development. A better approach is to offer this option as a bargaining tool to the new owner in return for some agreement, perhaps a VCA or Voluntary Conservation Agreement , in which the owner agrees to manage the Lagoon area in its natural state and bushwalkers agree to volunteer to construct a new track and perhaps even a new campsite and to avoid the Lagoon itself. A VCA is legally binding and allows access to Funds that could be used for rehabilitation of the old camping area, construct a new track and even a new campsite and toilet. This would be a win win for everyone.
Already a lot of roads have been constructed just over the ridge. I am uncertain as to the legal status of these tracks. When I asked Council they said it was a " grey" area. We all need to be alert in case they are extended over the Goddsell River and towards the Lagoon. Remember people have been walking to the Lagoon since the 1960s and the walking track has been marked on maps since then.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby johnf » Wed 09 Dec, 2020 10:18 pm

I don't see the lagoon as at risk of extensive development. The land is zoned RU1 so if the owner wanted to put a house there they could, while I would prefer it to be part of the NP an owner is entitled to that.
Seems the owner bought Lot 105 and 87 (627Hectares)for $600k in 2015 and sold lot 87 (76.89H) in 2018 for $305k

I don't know what the rates would be but a under a VCA they are peanuts. A VCA can reduce the value of a property though so it would depend on what the owners plans would be, if they would have any interest.
As for camping, I really can't see any owner agreeing to that. Best concentrate on access and conservation.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby ribuck » Wed 09 Dec, 2020 11:12 pm

As I've said before, if someone wants to make the owner an offer they can't refuse for the property, I will take care of fundraising and if necessary I will fund it in the interim. I can't attend meetings because I'm stuck overseas due to the arrival caps.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby johnf » Thu 10 Dec, 2020 2:40 pm

If the owner is not interested in selling the whole property, they may possibly agree to sell the portion of lot 105 east of Goodsell Ck. Possibly with an easement created if they want access to the lagoon. A Voluntary Conservation Agreement could be put in place ( may or may not need camping area to be excluded).
I'd say first step is to get in contact with the owners and see where they are at.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby crollsurf » Thu 10 Dec, 2020 3:09 pm

A "Keep Corang Open" facebook site has been started. https://www.facebook.com/groups/2625974677666254 A cut and paste from a post in the group:

"I went through in a group on the weekend and the land owner came and spoke to us while we were stopped at the lagoon, shortly after flying a drone over us. We stopped for lunch there and he was obviously observing us somehow and I think he mainly wanted to ask if we intended to camp there.
I told him we were passing through and the first we knew of the situation was when we saw the fences he's put across the track with no trespassing signs. He was polite. He understood we weren't realistically going to turn around and go back at that point and said we were welcome to pass through. He told us it's now closed to the public and he's trying 'to get the word out there'. He also said he was worried about people getting lost.
I was pretty surprised to see the next set of fencing he's set up across the track only a very short walk from the lagoon.
He's within his rights. But it would be cool if he would consider taking the wire down and changing the signs to 'no camping' perhaps with a little explanation that however many km of the track go over his land and please respect it etc. My friend innocently asked if he owned the lagoon too; he confirmed he does not.
He doesn't have to let people walk through and I can understand it if he doesn't but it's a pretty disappointing outcome. I assume it's the state government's fault."
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