Private Property signs on Corang Loop

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NSW & ACT specific bushwalking discussion. Please avoid publishing details of access to sensitive areas with no tracks.

Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby KateRock » Tue 25 Aug, 2020 10:36 am

Oh so sad about the Sassafras entrance. I do prefer the Nerriga entrance. And yes it is very boggy. I too experienced several knee deep mud holes. On the plus side the frogs are *&%$#! loving it
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Walk_fat boy_walk » Tue 25 Aug, 2020 10:55 am

KateRock wrote:Oh so sad about the Sassafras entrance. I do prefer the Nerriga entrance. And yes it is very boggy. I too experienced several knee deep mud holes. On the plus side the frogs are *&%$#! loving it
So it's been confirmed that it's no longer an option?

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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Grabeach » Tue 25 Aug, 2020 12:02 pm

I admit to having trouble navigating the NPWS site, but I couldn't find anything about the Sassafras entry closure. Then again, I could never find any mention on the site of it being an entry point to start with.

pedromrsi - How did you find out about the road being closed and the reason for it?
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Huntsman247 » Tue 25 Aug, 2020 3:55 pm

So just rang NPWS. I can confirm Sassafras entry is currently closed. However it's not the worst news as NPWS is currently renewing an access agreement and is waiting on one property to sign off on it. Apparently it seems positive and they just don't want to rush the sign-off in case it turns off the owners.
Apparently NPWS does not advertise that entrance because it would attract too many people and jeopardise access.
The recommendation was stay clear for now until access is secured so as not to jeopardise the signing of the agreement.
Apparently the best way to find out the outcome was to ring up the nowra NPWS office.

I also asked about any news on the corang lagoon access. Apparently the old owners were happy to allow people access. But the new owners are quite the opposite. It doesn't seem like NPWS can organise access to that area. The ranger was going to call me back with some more details on it. I'll post here when I find out more.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Petew » Tue 25 Aug, 2020 5:37 pm

Thanks huntsman
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Walk_fat boy_walk » Tue 25 Aug, 2020 11:13 pm

Huntsman247 wrote:So just rang NPWS. I can confirm Sassafras entry is currently closed. However it's not the worst news as NPWS is currently renewing an access agreement and is waiting on one property to sign off on it. Apparently it seems positive and they just don't want to rush the sign-off in case it turns off the owners.
Apparently NPWS does not advertise that entrance because it would attract too many people and jeopardise access.
The recommendation was stay clear for now until access is secured so as not to jeopardise the signing of the agreement.
Apparently the best way to find out the outcome was to ring up the nowra NPWS office.

I also asked about any news on the corang lagoon access. Apparently the old owners were happy to allow people access. But the new owners are quite the opposite. It doesn't seem like NPWS can organise access to that area. The ranger was going to call me back with some more details on it. I'll post here when I find out more.
Thanks for chasing that up!

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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby sandym » Sat 19 Sep, 2020 4:15 pm

Huntsman, any update on the Sassafras entrance?

It is disturbing that getting into the Budawangs is getting more and more difficult. The road into Long Gully is pretty bad right now and you have to drive around a huge hole in the road by going through the campground at the bottom of climb up the last hill. The last hill down to Long Gully is also super eroded.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Huntsman247 » Sat 19 Sep, 2020 6:57 pm

sandym wrote:Huntsman, any update on the Sassafras entrance?

It is disturbing that getting into the Budawangs is getting more and more difficult. The road into Long Gully is pretty bad right now and you have to drive around a huge hole in the road by going through the campground at the bottom of climb up the last hill. The last hill down to Long Gully is also super eroded.
I've been meaning to check with NPWS but haven't gotten around to it.
Nowra office is the one you need to contact. I might ring up Monday.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby sandym » Sun 20 Sep, 2020 7:50 pm

Cheers Mate. I called Ulladulla a month ago and am still waiting for a call back!

I will give Nowra call this week. Might ask about the state of the road to Long Gully too.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Huntsman247 » Sun 20 Sep, 2020 8:14 pm

sandym wrote:Cheers Mate. I called Ulladulla a month ago and am still waiting for a call back!

I will give Nowra call this week. Might ask about the state of the road to Long Gully too.
Rough road is good. Means less people out there when I go walking :wink:
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Grabeach » Mon 21 Sep, 2020 7:12 am

Rough road is good. Means less people out there when I go walking :wink:

Till someone decides that as the road has hardly any traffic they may as well close it and save ALL the maintenance costs!
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Huntsman247 » Mon 21 Sep, 2020 10:48 am

Grabeach wrote:
Rough road is good. Means less people out there when I go walking :wink:

Till someone decides that as the road has hardly any traffic they may as well close it and save ALL the maintenance costs!
Somehow I'm pretty certain that the road to long gully will remain open due to private property, 4wding and logging.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Huntsman247 » Tue 22 Sep, 2020 3:42 pm

Sasafras entrance is still closed pending a final signature. So no change from last time according to NPWS. The office will check with the ranger tomorrow if any progress has been made.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby sandym » Tue 22 Sep, 2020 8:10 pm

Thanks Huntsman. It sounds positive .....
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby davidp » Thu 24 Sep, 2020 6:53 am

A worrying development for Budawangs Wilderness lovers.

Incredibly there is now a driveway that has been constructed to within 800 m of Corang Lagoon and a small house has been built on Goodsell Ridge which overlooks the Corang River. This is a serious incursion into the wilderness. This ridge is immediately to the west of Goodsell River and provides a good alternative (off track but open) route back from the lagoon to the lookouts along the Wog Wog walking track. This was previously vacant crown land and for many decades people have been walking this area assuming it was National Park.

If you are concerned to learn more you can register your interest by joining the Facebook Group Keep Corang Open! or the Instagram Group Keep Corang Open!
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby sandym » Thu 24 Sep, 2020 7:00 pm

I am one of the increasing minority of people without a facebook account so could you share any plans you have here.

I agree it is concerning but, if you look at the topographic map that area does not appear to be part of the national park. Given the current LNP government pro-development stance I am unsure what success we would have in trying to get that chunk of apparently private land added back.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Huntsman247 » Thu 24 Sep, 2020 8:09 pm

Pretty sure there's nothing really that can be done. It's private property. From what I understand they are well within their rights to stop people from going through. As much as I hate to admit it. If and when it gets put on the market NPWS apparently want to buy that property but that's if it's sold to them. Don't think you can force people to allow you on to their land.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Allchin09 » Thu 24 Sep, 2020 9:24 pm

Here's some recent satellite imagery of the development ajoining the Corang River. The nice lagoon section is in the lower right corner of the image.

Looks like some new roads with development just above the river.

Sentinel-2 L1C image on 2020-09-24.jpg
Corang development
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Warin » Fri 25 Sep, 2020 10:39 am

Re the 'development'.

The wider roads maybe associated with fire fighting activities.

With the reduced vegetation the owners may have taken advantage to make tracks and build things. I would think council permission would still be required. And council may have speeded up the approval process post fires.
Last edited by Warin on Fri 25 Sep, 2020 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby davidp » Fri 25 Sep, 2020 10:52 am

Initial inquiries with council suggested that council has no record of development application. Shame that we may soon lose yet another piece of wilderness.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Allchin09 » Fri 25 Sep, 2020 4:48 pm

From what I can tell, the lot is listed as being on Kirriford Road WOG WOG and there has only been 3 DAs submitted against that street, with address 123. Looks like one approved in 2018.

Feb 2020 - withdrawn (#1)
Feb 2020 - withdrawn (#2)
Jan 2018 - approved
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Tyreless » Fri 25 Sep, 2020 5:18 pm

The land is Lot 105, DP755970. It is zoned RU1 - Primary Production under Palerang LEP 2014. A dwelling house is permissible on the land. The minimum site area for a dwelling house is 40 hectares and the site complies with this requirement.

You don't necessarily need to get development consent from Council to build a dwelling house on the land. You could get a complying development certificate from a private certifier (under Part 3A of SEPP Exempt and Complying Development Codes 2008).

Bottom line is that you need an approval of some sort for a dwelling house on the land but it doesn't necessarily have to be from Council, it could be from a private certifier.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Tyreless » Fri 25 Sep, 2020 5:23 pm

However, if the owner did build a new house (or some other structure) with approval from a private certifier, the owner would have notified the Council before the house/structure was built. So it would be somewhere on the Council's records, but not on their register of development applications. It wouldn't show up on the Council's web site - you would have to apply to Council to get access to their records (a "GIPA" application).
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby rwildman » Sat 26 Sep, 2020 5:25 pm

On 18th June 2018, I wrote to Milton National Parks Association:

"Last weekend we walked into the Burrumbeet Cave area near the Wog Wog entrance to the Budawangs area. When we got to the track which deviates and goes through to the Corang Pool and to the junction of Canowie Brook and the Corang River, we saw signs saying the track and the pool were closed. The signs appeared to be the work of the property owner who owns the corner territory of this walk which happens to include the Pools.
This mystified us as we had only been in the same area less than a month ago and there were no signs at that time.
Can you let us know what is going on? The fear I have is that with the track closed, this track will fall into disrepair and be closed off by natural growth."

After chasing this branch, I got this final reply:

"I spoke to one of the NSW National Park Staff members down here. He was not aware of the closure by the owner. He said that this can happen when private properties change hands, as it did with the access from Sassafras.
Ulladulla has now an acting operations manager, I will email her as well. She has been very busy with the fires down here.
Sorry that I can’t shed any more light on the topic."

I was supposed to get another update some time later but have had no response. I think we just go on using it like we used to until they actually build a WALL!
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Warin » Sat 26 Sep, 2020 8:16 pm

rwildman wrote: I think we just go on using it like we used to until they actually build a WALL!


:( I would think that would poor fuel on the fire.
---------------------------
Walking around the private property is possible. This does mean missing out on the pool and the old campground. But it will maintain access to the rest of the walk and avoid antagonizing the owner.

The situation can be viewed here https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/-35.2603/150.0869
The park boundary is the green line, the green area is a rough representation of the tree area.
The walk is the red dotted line, brown dotted line are vehicle tracks. The new building (it could be a 'shed' in council terms) does not show up (yet) but is in the north corner of the circular track.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Huntsman247 » Sat 26 Sep, 2020 9:02 pm

Probably best not to be tit-for-tat. That may just negatively affect other accesses through private property into the park. Keep in mind that all track entry into the NP on that side are through private property except wog wog. Antagonising property owners is pretty shortsighted.
At the end if the day it is sadly private property and not NP.
I rekon it might have gone very differently if people listened to the no camping signs initially. But a couple times going through there people had camped, left rubbish and removed signs. That sort of behaviour doesn't help NPWS negotiate access with property owners.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby davidp » Tue 29 Sep, 2020 11:28 am

Thanks everyone for contributing and sending in info. This is very helpful.
I agree we need to be very sensitive to the owner who possibly had no idea how disturbing their purchase was going to be to so many people. From what I can gather the area was crown land up til 2011 when it was sold and then resold in 2018. Can anyone confirm that ? If so clearly it should have been purchased by (or given by the Government to ) Nat Parks in 2011 or purchased in 2018. It is a shame that these two opportunities were missed. Going forwards we need to think what we can do. Above all we need to keep the owner on side and respect their views. In the meantime please keep collecting information and quietly asking friends to sign up to the face book group Keep Corang Open!.
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby potato » Wed 30 Sep, 2020 10:46 am

Warin wrote:
rwildman wrote: I think we just go on using it like we used to until they actually build a WALL!


:( I would think that would poor fuel on the fire.
---------------------------
Walking around the private property is possible. This does mean missing out on the pool and the old campground. But it will maintain access to the rest of the walk and avoid antagonizing the owner.

The situation can be viewed here https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/-35.2603/150.0869
The park boundary is the green line, the green area is a rough representation of the tree area.
The walk is the red dotted line, brown dotted line are vehicle tracks. The new building (it could be a 'shed' in council terms) does not show up (yet) but is in the north corner of the circular track.


Does the boundary include the pool or is the boundary defined by the waterway. In NSW, I thought the norm was for the boundary is defined by the waterways bank?

This would mean that people could still access the pool from the parks side of the river as the water is a common resource..?
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Allchin09 » Wed 30 Sep, 2020 3:05 pm

potato wrote:Does the boundary include the pool or is the boundary defined by the waterway. In NSW, I thought the norm was for the boundary is defined by the waterways bank?


I believe the boundary is defined by the watercourse in this case, but appears to extend to the centre, well that's the way it's mapped anyway. It doesn't look like a specific corridor exists along this waterway. They're more common on more significant watercourses.

See below, where grey line is boundary dividing the area to the top and right which are in the NP, and the rest being private. Pool is in the centre on the bend and you can see the track which people would follow to it from the south. In theory you could access it from the other side but would need to detour a few kms and walk the northern creek bank to get to it. I think the campsite is on the southern side as well, so would need a new one.

wog_wog.JPG
Corang River boundary
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Re: Private Property signs on Corang Loop

Postby Warin » Thu 01 Oct, 2020 12:40 am

potato wrote:
Warin wrote:The situation can be viewed here https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/-35.2603/150.0869
The park boundary is the green line, the green area is a rough representation of the tree area.
The walk is the red dotted line, brown dotted line are vehicle tracks. The new building (it could be a 'shed' in council terms) does not show up (yet) but is in the north corner of the circular track.


Does the boundary include the pool or is the boundary defined by the waterway. In NSW, I thought the norm was for the boundary is defined by the waterways bank?


Unfortunately waterways change course, either naturally or with some human influence or both. The legal titles may be tied to the water course at some point in time... or not. I don't know, but I'd not argue the point with out more info.

The OSM map reflects the NSW LPI base map ... and shows both the park boundary and the council boundary ... but not the adjacent property boundary and that seems to have an equal distance from the council boundary as from the park to the council boundary ... making a 'no mans land' not quite along the water course. This may have been an attempt to protect the water course. :?: Don't know. The info here is from the LPI base map.

For detail see https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/- ... /150.09817
The map is both zoom (+/- keys) and pan able (left click and drag).
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