Syncarpia camp site on Govett's Creek, Blue Mountains

[skibug]

I've read and heard some snippets about this camp site - I'm familiar with the small clearing with fire pit next to Govett's Creek at the point where the Rodriguez Pass track (coming downhill) reaches that creek - is that Syncarpia, or is it further upstream heading towards Edenderry Falls? If it is the upstream site, how far, what is the nature of the track and crossings, and around how many 2 person tents would it fit?

With thanks,

Skibug

[tom_brennan]

I believe it's up on the flat just south of the Greaves Creek/Katoomba Creek/Govetts Creek junction, but not sure why I think that.

It's a long time since I've been there - so can't remember whether it was still clear enough to camp. My guess would be that you would be doing a bit of clearing!

[skibug]

Anyone else know?

Skibug

[johnw]

Not sure if I'm much help but I did camp there a couple of nights back in 2012 on a volunteer trip.
Trying to recreate some history, at the time I had a GR 535 740 (Katoomba 1:25000), up Govetts Creek near the junction of Greaves and Govetts Creeks, as the vicinity of "Old Syncarpia". Probably would have been six of us at most, each with a one or two man tent. My (now vague) recollection is that the site we used was partly shaded, slightly sloping, enough room for the tents but not all together. You had to suss out a spot between trees etc. We may have actually decided to go a little upstream on Govetts Creek from the true location. Memory is hazy. My photos don't help unfortunately, I only took shots of Edenderry and Hilary Falls, and Blackwall Glen. I haven't been that far upstream since the most recent fires, so I don't know how that locality has fared. Downstream of Junction Rock was incinerated, regrowth was becoming robust earlier this year. I note that Andy Macqueen in "Back from the Brink" lists the Syncarpia location as "near the junction of Greaves Creek and Govetts Creek".

[marron]

Late to the party, but that area has only just recently been opened up again after being closed since the fires and I've spent a bit of time down there recently after a long absence!

I've always been a little bit confused by where "Syncarpia" is, and have got different answers. I'd say that things are muddled a bit in general because heading up Govetts Ck from the junction with Greaves, and actually up Greaves a way too, there's just some lovely turpentine (syncarpia) forest all around. So I've heard people just refer to the whole area as "Syncarpia" which doesn't really narrow things down.

In any case, there's the little site just near where the Rodriguez track meets Govetts Ck. (Rodriguez is still closed, by the way, and basically won't open again - too sketchy particularly near the top now). People say "no, that's not Syncarpia!"

Okay, so if you head up Govetts Ck on the right bank (opposite from that little camp site - your left as you head up stream) there is a nice bit of flat with some obvious signs of long usage - logs and firepits etc. This could be it.

Keep heading upstream and before too long you get to the junction of Greaves and pretty much have to cross back over around there anyway as it becomes very steep on that side. Once you've crossed Greaves as well and start heading up the left bank (right as you go upstream) of Govetts above the junction, there is a rise with a bit of flat; there have clearly been some landslides around here, and then large sandy flood deposits which have encouraged big grass. This could have been it, I don't know, but there's not many signs left if so. (Edit: just checked and this is where Andy Macqueen locates it on a map in "back from the brink". If anyone knows, it's him... but i'd say the flooding through here has made it a bit more difficult than it used to be for camping).

After this section you will pick up the old track to the falls, and enter some lovely turpentine forest near Blackwall Glen with not much understorey at all. Ground is undulating, and slopes up fairly quickly away from the creek, but there are certainly plenty of small open spots to pitch a tent spread out among the trees. This could be it too.

So... I don't know, and I think people have camped in all of those according to their preferences and said they were at Syncarpia (unless they were doing it in the 30s when according to Macqueen it was more popular).

[johnw]

marron, welcome to the confusion! I think your assessment is as good as any of us have speculated. Somewhere I have seen photos of the location dating back to the late 19th or early 20th century when it was apparently very popular. Ladies wearing long bustled dresses etc. Possibly in Andy Macqueen's book but could have been online. I remember passing through a very flat section, I think on Govetts Creek, enroute to Blackwall Glen that did resemble the photos I've seen, but that's going back many years now. If you're keen to pursue it further it might be worth contacting Andy Macqueen. There are probably contact details around as he's published quite a few books. Once I'm 100% recovered from various health issues I might go down there and have another search myself, given that access has been restored.

[marron]

Yes in back from the brink Macqueen has a lovely photo of a group at Edenderry in 1905 - as well as some of people climbing Arethusa falls in the 30s - but none of Syncarpia itself, I think.

Forgot to add - hope you are able to get back on track soon! you aren't a weeder by any chance are you?

[tom_brennan]

Everything I've read suggests it's up Govetts Creek, but very close to the Rodriguez Pass Track & Greaves Creek. Which points to the 2nd or 3rd of your 4 options above.

[johnw]

Forgot to add - hope you are able to get back on track soon! you aren't a weeder by any chance are you?

Thanks, I've been back in the bush recently following a knee replacement (going really well), but since had some unrelated issues.
Minor investigative surgery this week, hopefully puts a finger on it. Yes I am a weeder.

[marron]

Hope it goes well! And if you are the John I'm thinking of we may have met on a blue gum weeding jaunt a few years back, post fires, and maybe again up on a one-dayer up at Mt Vic not so long ago.

G'day again if so!

[johnw]

Hope it goes well! And if you are the John I'm thinking of we may have met on a blue gum weeding jaunt a few years back, post fires, and maybe again up on a one-dayer up at Mt Vic not so long ago.

G'day again if so!

Yes I was at the Mt Vic day recently and have done many Blue Gum weeding trips and other locations over the years, including post fires.
I'd say 99.9% chance we have met, so yes g'day again . Feel free to PM me if you'd like to discuss either topic.

[marron]

Ok, never one to let a mystery go, here's one to muddy the waters. Having a look at Back to the Brink again there's a reproduction of a Dunphy map from 1966/67 (p240 of my edition) which has a "Syncarpia Camp" label well up the creek.

State library has what looks to be an earlier map (1961) with a clearer label:

https://collection.sl.nsw.gov.au/digital/2ZewyD6AjMAm3



I've attached the file, hope people can see it. This one has a very clear arrow pointing a spot near what purports to be Arethusa falls. However... my understanding is that that is not the correct positioning of the falls, which are downstream, where the creek turns north.

Of course Dunphy's maps weren't always entirely accurate. I'd say he missed the boat on this one.

But looks like next time I'll have to attempt getting to the base of Arethusa just to be sure...!

Although looking at pictures from above again, it's hard to imagine there's anywhere terrific for a campsite.

https://www.david-noble.net/BlueMtsWate ... eath2.html

Edit: in Dot English (Butler)'s account of attempting to ascend Arethusa canyon in 1938 she makes reference to camping "close to the junction of Blue Gum track with the Rodriguez Pass Grand Canyon round tour". The party lost the track creekside as they were going up Govetts and headed up the spur to Carne Walls to then get across to Arethusa falls. They got up the falls but couldn't get up the canyon at a certain point so they returned a second time - she says they camped at "Arethusa Falls camp" (with a bunch of boy scouts!) before trying again. Interesting, no mention of Syncarpia at all, and it's not clear if it's the same place they camped at each time. The first one may even have been closer to junction rock (really only 10-15 minutes downstream). But I wonder if the second was at the base of the falls - seems logical if you were going for a second attempt to get close beforehand.

Not syncarpia but interesting none the less and I'm definitely going to have to check it out

[marron]

Sorry folks for the deluge. John's reference above to an old Katoomba map made me dig out my 1982 version.... which places Arethusa where Dunphy had them! (no reference to Syncarpia).

https://ibb.co/WW7ZjZY

Curiouser and curiouser!

Just noticed that Edenderry/Hilary are in the wrong spot below Blackwall Glen as well. All a big muddle haha.

[Warin]

The Geograhic Names Board has the 'official' locations...

For Arethusa Falls GDA2020 Lat33°39'54.3"S, Long150°20'04.2"E Gazettal Date 27-02-1970

Web page for searches .. you only need the name.. https://proposals.gnb.nsw.gov.au/public/geonames/search

[marron]

And those co-ordinates are closer to the Dunphy's map and the topo map, as opposed to where the canyon comes out. Which fits the description:

Waterfall on Katoomba Creek above its junction with Govetts Leap Creek.

Seems like perhaps, not unlike the Syncarpia situation, what was originally designated and what people actually call things is a bit different. Probably the 30s attempts at going up the falls at the cliffline end cemented those falls as being "arethusa" even though officially that is not them. Or perhaps Dunphy just got the description muddled so on it went on to the map even though in common use the falls were downstream. Given the designation date of 1970 and Dunphy's submission being in the 60s, I'm leaning towards that.

Back to syncarpia, I found a 1947 reference to Syncarpia in the bushwalkers annual - a party coming down the canyon and then continuing down Govetts Ck. After an eventful descent they rested in the sun at the top of Arethusa Falls at the end of the canyon (can only be the non-official Arethusa!), and then clambered down into the falls and walked to Syncarpia, where they dried out more in the sun. Up Rodriguez and out at 5. The sunniness would make me think again it's got to be the rise above Greaves at the junction there - unless they just had it wrong themselves.

[tom_brennan]

Most GNB locations for older place names are accurate to the nearest minute - which has then been converted to GDA94 or GDA2020.

That's why so many latitudes end in 54.3" and longitudes end in 04.2"!!

If you're wondering why they appear to be so inaccurate...

[marron]

Yeah, they were a bit off, but still further up the creek. Who knows haha.

Meanwhile, I'll knock off in a minute a swear, but found this in the 45 annual. Probably nothing, it's just a random photo which doesn't appear to be attached to any article, so it's probably just a picture of syncarpia trees as opposed to the campsite, but, this is a bit more what it looks like further up around Blackwall Glen, or on the right bank of Govetts CK opposite the junction:

Then again, photographer J Wood has photos of the Grose/Blue Gum in other annuals and was a SBW member. Seems possible it was the general area, anyway.

[tom_brennan]

You can safely discount both Dunphy's location of Arethusa Falls and Syncarpia Camp, as well as the GNB's location (and description!!) for Arethusa Falls. Flights of fancy all round.

The Blue Mountains Geographical Encyclopedia concurs with Syncarpia Camp being at the junction of Govetts and Greaves - funnily enough their reference is Dunphy!

Arethusa Falls has numerous references for its current location (ie at the end of the canyon), from the '30s onwards. Spatial Services certainly has it worked out now.

[marron]

Dunphy might have corrected himself on another map - or got it right on another. Heh.

This reminded me of Fox/Keats, looking it up in their Upper Grose book they say that Arethusa Falls is so named because Alpheus married her in Greek mythology (which fits the end of the canyon bit, where the 2 canyons meet). They also say the falls are mentioned in a newspaper in 1897.

Well, i found it.... it's a list of local attractions and it appears to suggest access - I'm guessing to view- via Medlow, with Minnie Haha on the way from that side:

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/194839609

Makes me wonder if again, they were looking at the "real thing" - a pretty long trek out along Carne's perhaps? Don't even know if there is a good vantage point out that way - or if they were actually referring to our phantom set further up Katoomba Creek.

Ah! Here is a Tourist Map from 1912, which shows how they would have access "Arethusa falls" - again, it's at the junction of Katoomba/Govetts:

https://collection.sl.nsw.gov.au/digital/oAlQkkW3kAR2D

Not only "Arethusa", but also, "Good Camping Ground" at the junction of Greaves/Govetts! Firming up as the spot for Syncarpia, even if it is now quite overgrown/flood affected. But isn't that interesting, access from the Pt Pilcher rd, then working up the creek to see the falls.

And in 1913 this brochure suggests a buggy ride from Medlow to see Minni Haha, with Arethusa nearby:

https://collection.sl.nsw.gov.au/digital/NgmKeGPVgq0l2

1909 - Parish Map, Arethusa at Katoomba/Govetts:

https://collection.sl.nsw.gov.au/digital/GBRMErlvygEk5

And for good measure here's a map from '35, showing Arethusa again up at the Katoomba/Govetts junction.

https://collection.sl.nsw.gov.au/digital/6v6602mAqkZ0g

I am starting to think the set at the beginning of the canyon was the original - that's several pre-Dunphy references now to that spot, plus him as well. And in common use, due probably in part to Dot and co's exploits going up it, the falls at the end of the canyon ended up with the name.

Edit:

Lol - here's Rodriguez in 1926 putting Medusa falls well up the creek

https://collection.sl.nsw.gov.au/record ... pzBGWqz8GQ

But yeah, by the 40s, Arethusa has made it's way to the cliff edge:

https://collection.sl.nsw.gov.au/digital/0BbBZmZ8oJ08D

Edit n

Just a lovely map from 1877 listing "cascades" in the spot near the top of Blackwalls Glen, and hardly anything else. No Rodriguez track yet. Only 2 years after Docker's Ladder was ascended - interesting that's on there, already. "Junction Camp" at Blue Gum. Seems unlikely that that section was well enough visited to be labelled - more likely noted from the ridges, I guess.

https://collection.sl.nsw.gov.au/digital/akpjgMq6mjMLK