Blue Mountains Sketch Maps

[Grabeach]

I have two of Dunphys sketch maps. One is the Gangerang etc 10th Ed. 1979 and the other Central Blue Mountains Sheet 2 1969 (basically Katoomba to Nepean north of the railway). The latter states that "Sheets 10 to 23 deal with features south of railway." Does anyone know if any of these other maps are available (unlikely) or at least viewable. In particular I am interested in the one(s) that would join the western edge, and north west corner, of the Gangerang map. This would show Kedumba Pass.

Graeme

[Grabeach]

Ooops, make that eastern edge and north east corner.

Sorry,
Graeme

[FatCanyoner]

I believe the State Library of NSW has a large number of bushwalking sketch maps in their archives, including many Dunphy maps. I've been meaning to get down there for ages, but haven't done so.
A quick search brings up a long list, much of which is listed as "cartographic material": http://library.sl.nsw.gov.au/search/X?myles%20dunphy&searchscope=2
They are slowly making their archives electronic, but they have millions of items not yet done (which I think includes most of this stuff). From memory, they have copying facilities, so you should be able to go there, find a map in the archive, and pay to have a hard copy produced.

[DaveNoble]

Myles did not draw a map showing Kedumba Pass as far as I know. Hid did daw maps of the Blue Labyrinth. And there are maps of - Boyd Plateau, Kowmung, Bindook Highlands, and small maps of Kanangra Tops and the Carmarthen Canyons.

SURC (Sydney Uni Rover Crew) did draw a map of Nelly's Glen - just to the north of the Gangerang Map, and also the large Gundungura Map

Dave

[kanangra]

The Rover Crew also produced a guidebook as a companion to their Gundungra map. It has been out of print for years but is very informative on the area covered by the map.

K.

[HitchHiking]

The Mitchell Libray collection is awesome! Well worth a vist. Neat to see the originals with the finger smudges still on them. I think if I remember correctly nothing from the Dunphy collection can be copied as the copyright is still inforced for 30 years after the author (Myles Dunphy's) death.

[FatCanyoner]

Given Dunphy died in January 1985, we only have three more years to wait until the copyright is up. I'll have to make a trip to the library in Feb 2015 and get some photocopies made!
Given how inspirational the still available wild dogs and gangerang maps are, I think there will be plenty of people keen to check out some more of the collection.

[HitchHiking]

Given Dunphy died in January 1985, we only have three more years to wait until the copyright is up. I'll have to make a trip to the library in Feb 2015 and get some photocopies made!
Given how inspirational the still available wild dogs and gangerang maps are, I think there will be plenty of people keen to check out some more of the collection.

Yes no doubt! haha Ill meet you there mate. In 2015 Tuesday afternoons will work best.

There is some really great stuff. I had a good long look at the Dunphys Grose River and Area map. That is a beauty in the same style as we know. It would be great to have availiable with the Kowmung and Gangerange. There must be a reason this one isnt produced as well.

There was another neat one up Kanangra top. Different style from the published ones now. All the ridges were done in what I guess was pastel. One can still see the finger finger smudges for the ridgetops and dunphys signature. The paper was a really thick parchment paper or something like that and it added to the vintage look and feel of it.

My personal fav was the Mt Solitary map drawn by Melville (of Melvilles lookdown) I think it was 1932 33 ish. Very neat indeed. (part of the dunphy collection and thus still under copyright)

[Grabeach]

Good news. Perusal of the Canyoner's Mitchell Library link showed the existance of a Dunphy Kedumba - Blue Labyrnth map. Following my suggestion, a friend sighted and apparently had part of that map copied at the Mitchell today. I read one take on copyright law from the "Secrets of Sydney past" web site that it lasts 50 to 70 years after the map was last published. However there may be an exemption whereby you can copy up to 10% of a map without permission for "research or study purposes" only. The map in question was 1961, so not sure which applied.

Graeme

[Grabeach]

Turns out at this point the Dunphy stuff can't actually be copied, but it can be photographed. With a decent camera this is just as good. However, I wonder about the reliability of some of the maps. The small section of the Kedumba - Blue Labrynth map that was done for me had both the Kedumba Pass and the Bushrangers / Goat track in the wrong place!

Graeme

[rcaffin]

However, I wonder about the reliability of some of the maps. The small section of the Kedumba - Blue Labrynth map that was done for me had both the Kedumba Pass and the Bushrangers / Goat track in the wrong place!

That's because there is still some confusion over exactly where the Goat Track goes. There are a number of half-made tracks in that area which predate the road considerably. It may well be that there never was a simple single defined 'Goat Track'; rather that different people used different variations.

Me, I prefer the Horse Track.

Cheers

[Grabeach]

I'd certainly agree with the confusion bit, however none of the routes, tracks or roads cut through the cliffline north of Kedumba hill as shown on the map! Mind you, the 1942 army map got it wrong too.

Graeme

[ramgrabber]

Hi Graeme, I absolutely share your fascination with old sketch maps and old passes!! Very happy I stumbled across this thread

Which maps do you have show a pass north of K-hill ? (actually if they are wildly inaccurate I'm not too keen on them.. but I've never seen any)

I have this image saved from an old cadestral map of the area (funny one of my areas of investigation is the exact same Goats Pass Track area as you):

but I didn't save a date. How does this compare with your map/GPT location? Or is it the same ?

To complicate things on my physical topo I have 'GPT' and a track in pencil marked following the 'obvious' spur feature at (mark out 5685 5840 or so on 3rd ed Jamison and it's the no brainer spur) which then heads west to hit the middle national park 'N' 564582. I don't know where I've copied it from and I haven't properly investigated the area (on the to-do list though)

Evan thanks a ton for telling us about (the existance of) Melville's Solitary map at the Mitchell, can't wait to have a look at that one

We should set up a Historical Map Investigation Society or at least keep this thread updated with other findings
Cheers

[HitchHiking]

Yeah its a great map that one of Solitary. Well worth a look. Must of been some great fun back then.

[Grabeach]

Ramgrabber,

The maps wrongly showing Kedumba Pass (ie. the 1929 Bridal Trail) north of Kedumba Hill are:-
1. 1:63360 Jenolan military sheet (emergency edition) 1942.
2. A map from Jim Barrett's Kills of Keduma (based on the above) 2008. I see Jim occasionally, I must ask him what gives.
3. Myles Dunphy's Sheett 1 Place Names: Kedumba - Blue Labyrnth Section of Central Blue Mountains 1961.
Sorry, but I am not computer savvy enough to post the maps on this site.

I recently spoke to Jim Smith on the Kedumba subject. My head is still spinning, it is complex. Jim and Wilf Hilder spent a lot of time sorting it out. Jim even did a field trip down there with Les Maxwell. It is very difficult to explain without the maps in front of you.

Your map, as best as I can tell:-
Shows only the bottom section of the Bridal Trail which is on the current Jamison map. I have yet to see a map with the top section shown.
Shows the road (I'm not sure if it is Cleary's early 50s or the Water Board's late 50s version), so gives the map a 'not before' date.
Labels one of (Maxwell's?) roads as the Bushrangers or Goat Track. I'm told it isn't.

Your grid references define a what I believe is a relatively recent bushwalkers track down to the river.

Graeme

[awells]

Concerning Ninian Melville's map of Mt Solitary. His son Graeme (Melville) is a member of the Coast and Mountain Walkers (and a heck of a nice guy to boot) and would be able to help you out with obtaining a copy of the map I should think. I wouldn't place too much reliance on the accuracy of Miles Dunpy's sketch maps, inspirational as they are. eg. his location of Orangutan Pass into the Grose Valley is off by the proverbial "country mile" (well not quitea mile but it is way off). The old Goat Track used to be known as The Bushranger's Track apparently, prior to the Maxwells using the track to get their goats and pigs up to Wentworth Falls.

[HitchHiking]

Concerning Ninian Melville's map of Mt Solitary. His son Graeme (Melville) is a member of the Coast and Mountain Walkers (and a heck of a nice guy to boot) and would be able to help you out with obtaining a copy of the map I should think.

Neat stuff! It may be more trouble then many would like, but it sure would be neat to get a copy of it.