Dont Hike Alone?

[vicpres]

Samma31, thanks so much for putting your side of the story. I also don't believe you have anything to be embarrassed about and can't see that you did anything wrong. It seems to me that this is yet another example, not that we need it, of not believing everything you read/hear/see in the media as rarely is the whole story told or both sides given.

Some of the responses to this post have raised the issue of costs of rescue and of ambulance transport. In Australia, the cost of search and rescue is covered by the state, but the cost of ambulance transport is not, except in Queensland and Tasmania. A problem with these arrangements is what constitutes S&R and what is ambulance transport, is likely to be open to interpretation, with the difference amounting to possibly thousands of dollars in costs. IMHO, anybody who goes bushwalking without having ambulance cover is just plain crazy as non-emergency ambulance travel is perhaps just as likely as in an emergency.

Ambulance cover is probably the cheapest form of insurance around.

[photohiker]

I'd also add to vicpres' valid comment: Anyone who has private health insurance should check their policy, Ambulance is usually covered. No need to pay twice.

[Snowzone]

Hi Samma, don't feel embarassed about this. I think you pretty much did everything right and acted responsibly by carrying a plb, being well equipped, and making sensible decisions. It was just plain old bad luck that you were injured and that the media got a hold of the story. Hope you recover and get back to walking soon.

[peregrinator]

Samma, I agree with all of those who point out that you have nothing to be embarrassed about.

A few comments have been made about the appalling standard of media reporting of incidents such as yours. There seems to be a fatalistic view that this is "just how it is". I don't think you have to accept that interpretation. You are able to have this investigated by the Australian Press Council.

http://www.presscouncil.org.au/making-a-complaint/

As your explanation differs so much from the news report, I imagine you have a very good case to have the truth told, rather than to have to read the inaccurate story (fanciful nonsense?) which was published.

[Solohike74]

I hike alone often as my username implies.

First overnighter was summer Diamantina Hut to Feathertop then down Bungalow the next day.

Did the Overland alone in late autumn.

Have done Valentine-Schlink-Guthega alone.

Winter ascent of Bungalow Spur, alone. Winter touring to Seamans Hut overnight alone.

Have only used plb in Blue Mountains and once in Kosi area.in winter.

[neilmny]

Solo when you say used PLB do you mean carried or activated?

[Ent]

It is always fascinating to see how people's perceptions change as the facts come to light. News reporting appears increasingly poor. Good to get more of the story from the "horse's" mouth.

One safe walker is all that matters, well at least to me.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Always alone on overnight walks, never had to activate a PLB, which I am very happy to say.

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk

[MartyGwynne]

Good to hear the other side of the story samma. I am sure that sometimes when the rescue helicopter is busy the police would drive in to pick you up but they would most likely have two or three vehicles to be able to manage any risks (unforeseen ones by the general public).
This week we had one guy mildly injured at work but they erred on the safe side and sent 3 ambo's 3 fire trucks and two police vans, very much over kill BUT they reacted on the information they received.
You should not criticise the rescue services for sort of going overboard as they are also putting into practice what they theororise and train for. It is best to ensure that the rescue skills are well practised and equipment is put to the test, when it really matters I would like a well practised emergency response team attend professionally.
I also hike/walk alone with care and the gear needed, I may need rescuing one day but it may not be because I walked alone. MPG

[jbuzz]

Hey Samma31, I feel your embarrassment. Once went swimming at the beach and swam out deep with a friend to where my husband was on his body board. Next thing a teenage girl lifeguard appeared and told us to come back in, we were in danger fro a rip. We resisted, strong swimmers, etcetera, but went in with her in the end. She was doing her job. But oh the shame walking up the beach - only made worse when the 'rescue' was reported in the age round up of beach safety the next day!

So annoying

Jane

[hamishm]

Another alternative to the PLB is a SPOT tracker - http://au.findmespot.com/en/ - it can report your position every 10 minutes, visible via the web to family at home, and you can signal an emergency if you need to. Cost is $200 for the hardware and about $160 a year for the subscription.

[wayno]

from experience the spot is not as realiable as a plb, in forest or in narrow deep valleys and canyons, so it depends where you want to use it.

[Strider]

And how you want to use it. SPOT is not a PLB replacement.

[vicpres]

Another alternative to the PLB is a SPOT tracker - http://au.findmespot.com/en/ - it can report your position every 10 minutes, visible via the web to family at home, and you can signal an emergency if you need to. Cost is $200 for the hardware and about $160 a year for the subscription.

A SPOT device should not be seen as an alternative to a PLB. While a SPOT can signal an emergency its primary function is as a tracker.

As President of Bushwalking Australia I represent bushwalkers on the Australian Search and Rescue Forum that is convened by AMSA, and SPOT devices have been mentioned in a couple of meetings I have attended. If I recall correctly, some of the problems with SPOT's are that the satellite network they use is in low orbit which can mean they suffer from reception issues, especially in heavy forested terrain or in steep terrain. Also, SPOT is a commercial operation based in the US and they say that emergency messages are monitored 24/7 but being based in the US therefore may not picked up or acted upon immediately. Furthermore, being based in the US, even when picked up there may be delays in notifying Australian Authorities. An advantage that SPOT devises have is the ability to send short messages and/or trigger emails, however new generation PLBs currently under development are expected to include some of these types of features.

PLBs are purpose designed emergency devices and therefore must meet stringent design and operating standards and uses/accesses the satellite network that gives the best possible coverage across the world. In Australia we have the worlds best Emergency Coordination system that is run by AMSA and when a PLB is activated in Australia it will be picked up and acted on within minutes. GPS enabled devices give a location accurate to within metres, and where the PLB is registered with AMSA (all should be) the emergency response once an activation is picked up by AMSA will be much faster.

[wayno]

PLB's have far bigger aerials on them as well, for better communication with the satellites..
i've used the latest generation of Spot device, and at times it consistently failed to communicate my position to a satellite while I was in south island beech forest regardless of the terrain, being in flat terrain made no difference with the communication while in the forest..

[MrWalker]

PLB's have far bigger aerials on them as well, for better communication with the satellites..
i've used the latest generation of Spot device, and at times it consistently failed to communicate my position to a satellite while I was in south island beech forest regardless of the terrain, being in flat terrain made no difference with the communication while in the forest..

I was recently walking for 6 hours and only had one SPOT signal get through. I was in forest almost all the time, but rarely in gullies where hillsides would block the signal. I've been rather disappointed in its ability to let my family know where I am, or whether I am still moving or lying unconscious somewhere.

[hamishm]

Yes, seems I spoke to soon. I'm an active cyclist and many in our club use SPOT trackers with good success on long remote rides with spotty cellular coverage. But I took the SPOT on a forrested walk the other day and got only two position reports out in 3 hours....

[Nuts]

A SPOT device should not be seen as an alternative to a PLB. While a SPOT can signal an emergency its primary function is as a tracker.

As President of Bushwalking Australia I represent bushwalkers on the Australian Search and Rescue Forum that is convened by AMSA, and SPOT devices have been mentioned in a couple of meetings I have attended. If I recall correctly, some of the problems with SPOT's are that the satellite network they use is in low orbit which can mean they suffer from reception issues, especially in heavy forested terrain or in steep terrain. Also, SPOT is a commercial operation based in the US and emergency messages are not necessarily monitored 24/7 and therefore may not picked up or acted upon immediately. Furthermore, being based in the US, even when picked up there may be delays in notifying Australian Authorities. An advantage that SPOT devises have is the ability to send short messages and/or trigger emails, however new generation PLBs currently under development are expected to include some of these types of features.

Hi vicpres, have you had incidents of spot beacon failing to assist in an actual rescue/as a beacon or from tracking?
We have a range of devices though I recently re-registered a newer spot beacon. I'm wondering if there have been problems with the system or their operating network? I did some testing with the first generation unit. It was only relatively high tracks though often in forest. They missed a few signals even then only occasionally, nothing like what some people seem to be finding (is it) recently. I hadn't heard of the base signal monitoring less than 24hrs a day? What hours are 'safe'??

[photohiker]

A SPOT device should not be seen as an alternative to a PLB. While a SPOT can signal an emergency its primary function is as a tracker.

As President of Bushwalking Australia I represent bushwalkers on the Australian Search and Rescue Forum that is convened by AMSA, and SPOT devices have been mentioned in a couple of meetings I have attended. If I recall correctly, some of the problems with SPOT's are that the satellite network they use is in low orbit which can mean they suffer from reception issues, especially in heavy forested terrain or in steep terrain. Also, SPOT is a commercial operation based in the US and emergency messages are not necessarily monitored 24/7 and therefore may not picked up or acted upon immediately. Furthermore, being based in the US, even when picked up there may be delays in notifying Australian Authorities. An advantage that SPOT devises have is the ability to send short messages and/or trigger emails, however new generation PLBs currently under development are expected to include some of these types of features.

Hi vicpres, have you had incidents of spot beacon failing to assist in an actual rescue/as a beacon or from tracking?
We have a range of devices though I recently re-registered a newer spot beacon. I'm wondering if there have been problems with the system or their operating network? I did some testing with the first generation unit. It was only relatively high tracks though often in forest. They missed a few signals even then only occasionally, nothing like what some people seem to be finding (is it) recently. I hadn't heard of the base signal monitoring less than 24hrs a day? What hours are 'safe'??

I think Spot uses GEOS, in the same way that InReach uses GEOS. Here is what InReach says about it:

Behind every inReach is GEOS. Behind GEOS is the IERCC — formally known as the International Emergency Response Coordination Center. Send an SOS message through inReach, and it goes directly to the IERCC. More specifically, it goes to a secure underground bunker located north of Houston. It has redundant electrical grids, generators, and a potable water supply from an underground well.

http://www.inreachdelorme.com/product-i ... sponse.php

We could argue about the quality of the recieving station, but I think the IERCC might have the upper hand there. AMSA being a serious operation has the advantage of being on Australian soil with arguably better local contacts than IERCC.

Suggesting that Spot is not monitored 24/7 is just phooey. I don't know where that came from, I have never heard it before and I have been following these devices since inception. Could be some verbal misinformation from a competitor but I would doubt it is in print - Spot would probably have their legal department on it in a heartbeat.

I think it's fair to say that some users demand better performance than what Spot offers, especially in deep valleys and/or heavily forested areas. The InReach does perform a little better, but I never had a lot of problem with the Spot2 I had.

[vicpres]

Thanks for the interest in my comments on this topic.

My only personal experience with regard to SPOT is with a nephew of my wife, who in 2012 completed 4,000kms of the Bicentennial Trail on his own. To help allay concerns from some family members (mostly his grandma) I purchased a SPOT for him so we could tell her where he was and where he had been. This didn't work out so well but it may have been due to the operator rather than the device.

The point I was really trying to make is that PLBs are emergency devices specifically designed and operate for a particular purpose i.e. as a personal emergency beacon. In the case of a SPOT, they are not specifically designed, nor do they specifically operate as a personal emergency beacon, though they do include this as a function. Perhaps this is why they are marketed as SPOT Tracker or SPOT Messenger. From my research, the significant issue with their performance as an emergency device is the many reports of reception problems, especially when compared to PLBs.

In Australia, if you set off a PLB the signal will be picked up by the Rescue Coordination Centre (RCC) at AMSA, possibly the worlds best RCC, and they will initiate a relevant response immediately. They are obviously based in Australia and have the benefit of that local knowledge and understanding. In the case of a SPOT, even where there is no reception problem, the signal can only be picked up and responded to by a US based operation. According to their web site they operate 24/7, but will then need to determine where to direct the response. Given that we are talking of an emergency situation i.e. there is a threat or potential threat to life, performance, time and simplicity is surely of critical importance.

If using a SPOT in other parts of the world, according to their web site there are additional benefits that they offer, such as insurance which seem to be well worth considering.

[wayno]

i've always carried a PLB when i was carrying the SPOT findme... my only purpose for using the SPOT was as a tracking device... and from what i've seen of it's performance where i walk, I"ll keep taking a PLB with me for emergency use...

[photohiker]

According to their web site they operate 24/7, but will then need to determine where to direct the response. Given that we are talking of an emergency situation i.e. there is a threat or potential threat to life, performance, time and simplicity is surely of critical importance.

If using a SPOT in other parts of the world, according to their web site there are additional benefits that they offer, such as insurance which seem to be well worth considering.

I note you have moderated the suggestion that the emergency response does not operate 24/7. As President of Bushwalking Australia I think you should be more circumspect in your representation of these devices and be absolutely clear about your facts.

Now you are suggesting that the IERCC upon receiving an emergency beacon from a GPS enabled device will possibly not have a standard protocol for approaching emergency services in the country of origin, and that there will be a delay in that response? What is your source for this representation? I'm not saying that you are incorrect, (I don't have that information) but As President of Bushwalking Australia if you are making this representation you are doing so from a position of authority, and you should be doing that with the facts in your hand.

I would point out that we have heard stories on this site of delays with PLB responses. When dedicating S&R teams into wilderness, it is important to attempt to verify that the device is in the possession of it's owner and likely to be where it claims to be. Usually a call to next of kin verifies this.

Here is what Spot says about their response times:

GEOS average response time between receipt of your 911 activation and dispatch of emergency responders to help you—wherever you are in the world—is only 11 minutes.

Here are the steps the IERCC walks through on every 911 activation:

Receives 911/SOS emergency notifications
Notifies Search and Rescue (SAR) agency
Coordinates SAR response
Maintains open line with SAR agency throughout the event
Establishes and holds an open line with your family or your other nominated emergency contact(s)

Are you suggesting this information is incorrect?

A simple google search would suggest that Spot has been quite effective across the planet:



Is a PLB a better option for emergency response? Of course it is. It is a single purpose device. Wayno is on the money: If you want tracking and the best emergency beacon, take both. Part of the problem with Spot type tracking devices is that when it is moving it is getting a variable window to the sky depending on location, tree cover and movement of the operator. It also has to communicate with two sets of Satellites through that variable window while the walker is in motion. These are not issues faced by the PLB. When I had a Spot, I noticed the easiest ways of making it fail was to switch it on when already on the move, it then struggled to get a fix on the satellite networks (no idea which, possibly both) and would miss many tracking points while it sorted itself out.

In my opinion, it is only a matter of time before the PLB's merge into the same space as Spot and InReach (oh, and Yellowbrick). It will be interesting to see how they perform for tracking in those moving conditions compared to the other devices.

[madmacca]

from experience the spot is not as realiable as a plb, in forest or in narrow deep valleys and canyons, so it depends where you want to use it.

Wayno, how many times have you activated a PLB, and how does this compare to how many times you have pressed the emergency button on a SPOT?

[corvus]

from experience the spot is not as realiable as a plb, in forest or in narrow deep valleys and canyons, so it depends where you want to use it.

Wayno, how many times have you activated a PLB, and how does this compare to how many times you have pressed the emergency button on a SPOT?

Good question
corvus

[wayno]

from experience the spot is not as realiable as a plb, in forest or in narrow deep valleys and canyons, so it depends where you want to use it.

Wayno, how many times have you activated a PLB, and how does this compare to how many times you have pressed the emergency button on a SPOT?

i shouldnt say in my experience, but from what i have read , i have seen the spots arent that reliable.... i know of situations where a plb has communicated with satellites from under a forest canopy similar to caonpy's where i've found spot has failed. the plb satellites orbit higher, the aerials are far larger on the plb's, than on a spot device
i've seen it take quite a while for a spot to aqure a satellite, i've had to wait a good quarter hour sometimes standing still in the open, if you run a test function on a plb it aquires the satellite faster, UNDER FIVE MINS

[photohiker]

i've seen it take quite a while for a spot to aqure a satellite, i've had to wait a good quarter hour sometimes standing still in the open, if you run a test function on a plb it aquires the satellite faster, UNDER FIVE MINS

Spot1 was very tardy in this regard, but when stationary in open ground my Spot2 was pretty quick to acquire sat lock. This was one of the fixes in the Spot2 design, a better antenna. I found the best protocol in use was to turn the Spot on as I was finishing packing up my tent. By the time I put the pack on, it was always ready to roll.

[wayno]

yeah where possible i'd find a spot open to the air before i set out in the morning and leave it stationary for as long as i can in the morning before its time to set off, when sending the OK signal it can take quite a while before the message is confirmed as sent, best part of half an hor sometimes.

[Nuts]

Thanks for clearing that up fellas. Mr Walkers post is of note to me as well. Never used the gen1 beacon a lot for tracking but i'll try to get some useful updates from the newer one (ie. send it out on some walks). Anyhow.. it's only a backup for us- anyone deciding to re-register try TRACKSPOT as a code for free tracking.

Aside, I wonder if 'going bush without a beacon' will one day be an extreme sport?

[wayno]

Maker of GPS device sued in yacht race crash that left 4 sailors dead

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... z2ycduAPVO

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... z2xut2LhR6

[neilmny]

Holy mackerel.......

Although the GPS device was functioning properly, Spot LLC is liable for damages because no one monitoring SOS signals alerted authorities, leading to the deaths, the complaint alleges.
Court documents state that about 1:30 a.m. April 28, 2012, the Aegean somehow became disabled. When the SOS emergency function on the Spot Satellite GPS Messenger was activated, emergency responders were never notified, the complaint alleges.
"They got the signal, the device worked, it was just human error on their end," Lack said. "There was a Coast Guard boat nearby that could have been there within 20 minutes."

I'll take my PLB monitored by AMSA thanks.