Grampians Peaks Trail

Victoria specific bushwalking discussion.
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Victoria specific bushwalking discussion. Please avoid publishing details of access to sensitive areas with no tracks.

Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby Lophophaps » Tue 16 Nov, 2021 7:51 pm

Dexter, interesting. In effect PV is saying - for me at least - we are going to install flash campsites that you don't want and don't need and then you will have to pay a lot more than normal, which for me is nil. All I need is flat ground, preferably sheltered and close to water. I suspect that many others here have the same needs. When I leave a remote campsite there will be no trace apart from flattened grass. The GPT does not appeal to me at all. However, it is acknowledged that many will like such walks.

The cost is a disincentive for those on lower incomes, and will place the GPT outside their reach. Like Falls to Hotham, it's getting a bit elitist.
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby Dexter » Tue 16 Nov, 2021 8:01 pm

Yeah I just find it sad. I don't generally mind a drop loo and water tank etc. It feels luxurious after a days walk. I know it's not everyone's style... but what I find sad is that for some families this is outside of their budget. Imagine telling your kids who see it advertised, 'Sorry but we just can't afford to take you hiking.' That to me is ludicrous for what should be a public space. I think your breakdown is accurate, but I also don't know if I believe them. How does the Prom southern loop deal with maintenance costs at $7 a night? My reply was:

"Thanks for your response. Is there a breakdown of the income and expenses for the public to see? I'm guessing this should be operating as a cost recovery project since it's taxpayer funded and for the public?"

Probably less for my benefit but for everyone else reading.
Last edited by Dexter on Tue 16 Nov, 2021 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby EGM » Tue 16 Nov, 2021 8:40 pm

I really don't like the answer that the cost is essentially for upkeep etc. An overnight walker does no more damage to the track than a day walker but they don't have to pay. I imagine most the the traffic in many sections will be day walkers too.
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby Eremophila » Wed 17 Nov, 2021 6:32 am

I imagine, in view of the market being targeted, that water tanks will need to be manually (and constantly) refilled. That’s gotta be a costly exercise.

Not sure how many novice hikers would be prepared to commit to a 13-night walk. Plus that’s 2 weeks of annual leave, not counting any additional travel time. That’s a big chunk for most of us. They really need to be offering more flexibility for those seeking a shorter itinerary.
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby Lophophaps » Wed 17 Nov, 2021 7:54 am

EGM and Erempholia, good points. On balance of probability it seems that most visitors will be walking for just a few days, and only experienced fit people with spare cash will do the entire walk in one go. In December 2022 I'd like to see a breakdown by duration and where the parties walk. It will also be interesting to see if the GPT has meaningfully added to the local economy, and which walking companies have had more clients. One of the most obvious is transfer. Leave the car at the end of the walk and get a lift to the start. Or maybe devise a loop, or out and back on the GPT.
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby Eremophila » Wed 17 Nov, 2021 11:37 am

The ABC article refers to a couple of businesses which are offering food drops and/or transport out of Halls Gap. There will be an opening for re-supply in Halls Gap as well, a small selection of food, gas, first aid, spare kit items etc.

It will be very interesting to see what level of knowledge the Brambuk staff will be offering. Of course ideally there should be staff who have completed the entire walk and are familiar with conditions. Based on past experience this is unlikely.
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby oldsalt671 » Wed 17 Nov, 2021 4:48 pm

So just got through digitising the maps and creating a GPX of the full trail. This thing is a monster and full credit to parks for pulling this together. However, they lose big points in the way they are disseminating basic info about the hike. The link below contains

1. PDFs of the new maps - North, Central, South
2. Memory Map Files for North, Central South. These are calibrated maps so use at your own risk
3. GPX of the full route broken down by day
4. Route Card with elevations for each stage. I have also done a gross error check on the GPX tracks vs Parks distances.

If you find any glaring screwups please let me know.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h47vxpob5tu414q/GPT%20Planning%20Docs.rar?dl=0

Working through the new route it jumps out at you just how much new track has been cut. Anyone trivialising this hike has not really thought it through. The first question you need to ask yourselves is when did you last do a North-South through-hike of the Grampians? With all due respect, I hazard a guess that the answer is never. This trail and in particular the (hopefully) reliable water sources makes it a possibility. We are booked for the through hike in a few weeks time, so will let you know how we go. :D


Grampians Peaks Trail Route Card

Route Card.png
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby bigkev » Wed 17 Nov, 2021 6:50 pm

oldsalt671 wrote:So just got through digitising the maps and creating a GPX of the full trail. This thing is a monster and full credit to parks for pulling this together. However, they lose big points in the way they are disseminating basic info about the hike. The link below contains

1. PDFs of the new maps - North, Central, South
2. Memory Map Files for North, Central South. These are calibrated maps so use at your own risk
3. GPX of the full route broken down by day
4. Route Card with elevations for each stage. I have also done a gross error check on the GPX tracks vs Parks distances.

If you find any glaring screwups please let me know.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h47vxpob5tu414q/GPT%20Planning%20Docs.rar?dl=0

Working through the new route it jumps out at you just how much new track has been cut. Anyone trivialising this hike has not really thought it through. The first question you need to ask yourselves is when did you last do a North-South through-hike of the Grampians? With all due respect, I hazard a guess that the answer is never. This trail and in particular the (hopefully) reliable water sources makes it a possibility. We are booked for the through hike in a few weeks time, so will let you know how we go. :D


Grampians Peaks Trail Route Card

Route Card.png



Thanks for the info oldsalt, the first thing that jumps out at me is the amount of climbing - while the days are short there are some decent climbs.

I've walked Flat Rock to Halls a couple of times and variations of the above numerous times - away from the popular bits I've never come across another walker. I'm thinking very few people have walked the complete section south of the Major Mitchell Walk either.

It is a pity you can't book your own itinerary - the reasons the Parks Vic give about managing the flow of walkers seems a little odd when people can cherry pick certain sections (and therefore book them out) - maybe I've got that wrong but I thought that I read that somewhere?

I wouldn't really have any issues with this track if dispersed camping is still allowed - I'm following that issue closely. Until Parks Vic floated the ban on wild camping I was of the view that the new track might allow me to access some wilder off track spots a little easier.

I'm looking forward to reading your trip report - it should be a very interesting walk.

Cheers
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby CraigVIC » Wed 17 Nov, 2021 7:24 pm

Very generous oldsalt, great stuff

Bigkev, I think there are supposed to be spots that are reserved for the complete walk not available to the section walkers. Parks have said in a few places the booking system is a work in progress.

I'm with you, the dispersed thing has soured my attitude to the gpt.
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail - Open??

Postby nezumi » Thu 18 Nov, 2021 3:43 pm

So somewhat along the lines of what oldsalt has done, and primarily borne from a place of spite, I have had a crack at mapping out a "free" variation on the GPT, which can be found here: https://www.komoot.com/tour/569436127?s ... RR&ref=wtd

I haven't done the walk, obviously - my Gariwerd hiking has been limited to The Pinnacle with a 5 year old on my back - but the route has been done using roughly the path of the GPT with camping stops using either dispersed camping while that's viable, or existing, lower cost, campgrounds. I fully expect that some of the sites displayed in Komoot are either defunct or not viable, but I was working with what I had.

Mt Zero Picnic area
Mud Creek bush camping area (Possibly Troopers Creek if Mud Creek not viable? - $15.50)
Plantation Campground $0.00
Halls Gap (Caravan park etc?) $???
Borough Huts Campground $14.70
First Wannon Camp $5.50
Jimmy Creek Campground (optional) $14.70
Wannon Crossing Camp (free?)
South of Wannon Crossing it gets a bit dicey, limited to dispersed camping only, and even then it's very restricted. There is the option of doing *just* the last 3-day walk for this leg, being the "Djardji-djawara and Mud-dadjug 3-day Hike"

Walk has been potentially condensed to ~ 9 days.

Indicative cost: $35.70 / $50.40 (depending on use of Jimmy Creek) + Halls Gap accom + 3-day paid option.

For this I have relied predominantly on the Grampians Parks Visitor Guide: https://www.parks.vic.gov.au/-/media/pr ... -guide.pdf
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby Baeng72 » Thu 18 Nov, 2021 4:09 pm

Interesting Nezumi.
Mut (hut) creek camping site is a good one. I just thought of it as the campsite at Briggs Bluff Junction - didn't know it had a name - when I put up the tent a week or so ago.
Going down to Plantation then back up will grind the gears a little, but needs must.
The length (duration) makes it almost viable if I ever get the energy.
Not a bad idea at all.
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail - Open??

Postby oldsalt671 » Thu 18 Nov, 2021 7:25 pm

Hey Nezumi,

that is very cool. I laid your GPX (RED) over the actual GPT (Blue). The major differences are the descent down to Plantation, through The Battlements and the Mount William Range.

The Free PT.pdf
(1.37 MiB) Downloaded 275 times
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby nezumi » Thu 18 Nov, 2021 8:02 pm

oldsalt671 wrote:Hey Nezumi,

that is very cool. I laid your GPX (RED) over the actual GPT (Blue). The major differences are the descent down to Plantation, through The Battlements and the Mount William Range.

The Free PT.pdf


I'm not surprised - the areas where the actual GPT goes haven't yet appeared on the base maps used by Komoot - specifically the descent from Red Bluff / The Battlements and the whole southern section, including the descent into Dunkeld.
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby CraigVIC » Fri 19 Nov, 2021 7:05 am

The track to plantation has been closed for a while I think? Probably an epic ordeal to drop down to camp. I think I'll take a look at it in the near future.
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby nezumi » Fri 19 Nov, 2021 12:00 pm

CraigVIC wrote:The track to plantation has been closed for a while I think? Probably an epic ordeal to drop down to camp. I think I'll take a look at it in the near future.


From the available maps, it would appear that you are able to bush camp near the trail in that area anyway. I'm possibly consider passing by the Werdug campsite to grab water and cook food, before heading on to find a spot to pitch up.
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby bmak » Tue 23 Nov, 2021 10:47 am

CraigVIC wrote:The track to plantation has been closed for a while I think? Probably an epic ordeal to drop down to camp. I think I'll take a look at it in the near future.
Yes since the fire so it will be massively overgrown.

I recently tried to navigate an old track along that ridge but gave up after a couple of hours.

I headed out over the weekend to check out some sections.

Regular water tanks are a thing. Fancy boot cleaners also.
The trail varies but it’s typically Grampians and a lot of sections were very narrow and still rocky although clear.

Also found not a lot of effort had been put in to making a flat surface with heavy camber making it difficult to walk in some areas.

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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby north-north-west » Tue 23 Nov, 2021 11:07 am

The boot cleaners are not just for giggles. They're there to try to stop the spread of phytophthera. Pretty standard at the start of official tracks down here. Good to see they're being used elsewhere.
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Tue 23 Nov, 2021 1:24 pm

Nov. to March gets quite hot out in The Grampians. I might head out there in Autumn. However finding water in Autumn can be an issue.
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby CraigVIC » Sun 05 Dec, 2021 7:07 pm

Peaks trail being advertised at my local supermarket. Tax dollars at work.
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby Eremophila » Sun 05 Dec, 2021 8:39 pm

So.... I was wondering how Parks would keep water tanks topped up in some of the more inaccessible camp locations. Considering the target market - guided groups and inexperienced hikers - assume that guaranteed water supply would be required.

Yesterday I was walking Mt Sturgeon, thinking "what on earth is that on the side of Mt Abrupt". Not so apparent in my photo, but quite stands-out-like-dogs-balls in real life. Chatting with a Melbourne couple who have been doing some day walks in the area, yes it's a campsite. Apparently still under construction.

My walking companion who is unable to do much due to a lung infection, wandered up The Piccaninny and reported that the trail to Mud-Dadjug is shown on signage as currently closed due to helicopter activity, presumably completion of construction works.

Not sure whether there's a water tank at the campsite, but between the Sturgeon trail junction and the new "trailhead" on Victoria Valley Road, there is a water tank which is very much vehicle accessible. Without having seen an official map (apparently available from Brambuk), perhaps Parks have placed tanks at sites where they can be topped up by vehicles. Tanks at campsites would rely on rain only.

Gosh I'm blathering on a bit here. My point is - campsite tanks relying on rainfall only will surely run dry for a significant portion of the year, given anticipated numbers. Users will need to replenish at appropriate points and carry sufficient water supply to their camp, particularly if campsites are in locations such as this one. And hopefully we won't see group tours rinsing their hands and feet and god knows what else under running taps. :roll:

And again, hopefully Brambuk will have some staff who actually know something about hiking and camping !!! Perhaps they will just refer you to a website.
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby Lophophaps » Mon 06 Dec, 2021 5:54 am

A visual landscape assessment should have been done for Mount Abrupt and the entire GPT. This
https://360environmental.com.au/capabil ... ssessment/
says:
Environmental Protection Act 1986: Under this Act, ‘environment’ is defined as “living things, their physical, biological and social surroundings, and interactions between all of these”. When a proposal is assessed under the EP Act, the EPA may consider a proposal’s impacts to visual amenity under its guidance framework for environmental factors based on a number of environmental factors and protection objectives listed in the Statement of Environmental Principles, Factors and Objectives (EPA 2018a). The factors and objectives generally relevant to landscape and visual impacts are:

Landforms: “To maintain the variety and integrity of significant physical landforms so that environmental values are protected”

This is the basis for the assessment
https://www.landscapeinstitute.org/tech ... ia3-panel/

In simple terms, if a development is out of place then it's probably not allowed. This was the problem with the proposed luxury hut at the top of Diamantina Spur.

Does anyone have an email for PV Halls Gap?
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby rcaffin » Mon 06 Dec, 2021 1:28 pm

Well, I was quite interested at first, when I saw it advertised.

But the responses from Brambuk have been so oriented towards 'do it our way and pay our fee', not to mention no bush camping, that I give up. It would have been 1,100 km drive from Sydney anyhow, and it is just not worth if for a BUSHWALK. Maybe the Licenced Tour Operators will benefit?

Besides, 10 km/day?

Cheers
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby CaptainC » Mon 13 Dec, 2021 9:47 pm

Hmmm, I had thought that it would run over the crest of the Serra Range but it looks like it mostly bypasses it.
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby Thewaz » Mon 07 Mar, 2022 9:27 pm

I know a guys who did the entire GPT in a couple of days, didn’t have to pay a cent
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby Eremophila » Mon 07 Mar, 2022 9:48 pm

160km in a couple of days??
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby Thewaz » Tue 08 Mar, 2022 12:13 pm

34 hours, holds the PKT for the GPT
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby EGM » Tue 08 Mar, 2022 1:40 pm

I think you mean FKT. The male FKT is 34 hours and 44 minutes, set in November last year. The female record 44 hours and 2 minutes set only a couple of weeks ago. Both are supported times. It looks like atleast a few guys have attempted since.

There are no unsupported or self supported records listed.
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby Thewaz » Sun 13 Mar, 2022 7:19 pm

Yes FKT
Pretty sure was broken again
31 hours, insane
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Grampians peak trail

Postby neustace » Mon 28 Mar, 2022 12:02 pm

Planning to hike from Roses Gap through to Halls Gap (N2-4) on the Grampians Peak trail in 2 weeks. Does anyone know the water status at Gar and werdung campgrounds? Parks Vic say they have tanks at roses gap road and mount difficult road but that would mean carrying 2 days of hiking plus water for meal. Not crazy about that idea
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Re: Grampians Peaks Trail

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Tue 29 Mar, 2022 8:19 am

All of this human built for profit infrastructure on the GPT will be removed by one big fire or flood. We can live in hope . Parks are for nature .
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