Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Victoria specific bushwalking discussion.
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby Baeng72 » Tue 30 Aug, 2022 1:31 pm

paidal_chalne_vala wrote:I saw the video BAENG put on You Tube of his walk to Mt. Spec. from Lake Cobbler. It is a shame he did not visit Mt. Cobbler while he was in the area.

Only so much time in a weekend.
Mt Cobbler looked impressive on the way in, even had a patch of snow on the south(ish) side.
I'll head back up that area in Green Season (not sure which Green Season).
I've added King Spur, Muesli Spur, Mt Cobbler, to my list of ways to punish myself while in a beautiful location. :)
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Wed 31 Aug, 2022 9:50 am

In green season you can get a 2WD car down to near King Hut . From there you can walk up Muesli spur and over to Lake Cobbler and camp at Lake Cobbler.
Day 2 you walk up to the Summit of Mt. Cobbler including the crab crawling up the rocks to the true summit . Before that you can drop the pack at the track junction and come back to it . From the track junction which is marked with a cairn IIRC the track continues and is nice to walk along since it is a foot track and not a Jeep road.
The return route is down the Spec. road where it meets the Lake Cobbler Road.
The views from the top of Muesli spur and Mt. Cobbler on a clear day are scenic and life affirming.
Camping at King Hut is not a bad option. The water in King River is fresh and there are flat camp sites near the hut.There is a pit loo there too.
It is not a secret spot and 4 x 4 vehicle users frequent the area in the Nov. to April period.
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby Baeng72 » Wed 31 Aug, 2022 9:55 am

paidal_chalne_vala wrote:In green season you can get a 2WD car down to near King Hut . From there you can walk up Muesli spur and over to Lake Cobbler and camp at Lake Cobbler.
Day 2 you walk up to the Summit of Mt. Cobbler including the crab crawling up the rocks to the true summit . Before that you can drop the pack at the track junction and come back to it . From the track junction which is marked with a cairn IIRC the track continues and is nice to walk along since it is a foot track and not a Jeep road.
The return route is down the Spec. road where it meets the Lake Cobbler Road.
The views from the top of Muesli spur and Mt. Cobbler on a clear day are scenic and life affirming.
Camping at King Hut is not a bad option. The water in King River is fresh and there are flat camp sites near the hut.There is a pit loo there too.
It is not a secret spot and 4 x 4 vehicle users frequent the area in the Nov. to April period.


Nice.
I was thinking you could head up Muesli, do Lake Cobbler & Mt Cobbler as you suggest (although given my struggles with the Heli-Spur I'm not sure the final scamble up Mt Cobbler would be advisable), then back to Spec Road. If had enough, down Spec road all way to King Hut, if feeling great (never happens), follow Spec trak towards Mt Spec down to Koonika track that I saw, up Koonika, use gravity to get down bluffs to King Spur and back to King Hut that way. Probably inadvisable again, but I got down Heli-Spur, so it would be possible.
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Wed 31 Aug, 2022 10:05 pm

I would give going UP King Spur a go but not going down it.
There are bush bashing, rocky crab crawling and navigational issues there too. Timbertop school students frequent that route as part of their end of year hiking programme in late November.
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby Anotherjonesy » Wed 31 Aug, 2022 11:10 pm

Jumping in here seems we're on a similar topic. How far can I get up speculation road in a 2wd in early October ? I'm thinking camp creek is a good food drop spot for my AAWT walk . Or are the better options that time of year to drive in, or no options? I don't mind a days walk out and back, have plenty of time
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby Baeng72 » Thu 01 Sep, 2022 7:18 am

Anotherjonesy wrote:Jumping in here seems we're on a similar topic. How far can I get up speculation road in a 2wd in early October ? I'm thinking camp creek is a good food drop spot for my AAWT walk . Or are the better options that time of year to drive in, or no options? I don't mind a days walk out and back, have plenty of time

It's my understanding that seasonal road closures are in place until end of October/Melbourne cup weekend. file:///D:/DOWNLOADS/SRC2022-Map-34A-Alpine-National-Park-West-A.pdf
The gate on Cobbler Lake Track (just above Lake Cobbler) is 2WD and good to drive to via Whitfield.
It's a bit slow after leaving the bitumen after Cheshunt, but no dramas in a 2WD.
It's a 13km stroll to Camp creek from the gate.
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby north-north-west » Thu 01 Sep, 2022 8:06 am

paidal_chalne_vala wrote:I would give going UP King Spur a go but not going down it.
There are bush bashing, rocky crab crawling and navigational issues there too. Timbertop school students frequent that route as part of their end of year hiking programme in late November.


The only issue I had going up King Spur was the loose ground on the steep section. Otherwise it was straightforward.
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby Anotherjonesy » Thu 01 Sep, 2022 8:45 am

Baeng72 wrote:
Anotherjonesy wrote:Jumping in here seems we're on a similar topic. How far can I get up speculation road in a 2wd in early October ? I'm thinking camp creek is a good food drop spot for my AAWT walk . Or are the better options that time of year to drive in, or no options? I don't mind a days walk out and back, have plenty of time

It's my understanding that seasonal road closures are in place until end of October/Melbourne cup weekend. file:///D:/DOWNLOADS/SRC2022-Map-34A-Alpine-National-Park-West-A.pdf
The gate on Cobbler Lake Track (just above Lake Cobbler) is 2WD and good to drive to via Whitfield.
It's a bit slow after leaving the bitumen after Cheshunt, but no dramas in a 2WD.
It's a 13km stroll to Camp creek from the gate.

Thanks Baeng, lake cobbler Rd it is then.
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby Baeng72 » Thu 01 Sep, 2022 8:54 am

Anotherjonesy wrote:
Baeng72 wrote:
Anotherjonesy wrote:Jumping in here seems we're on a similar topic. How far can I get up speculation road in a 2wd in early October ? I'm thinking camp creek is a good food drop spot for my AAWT walk . Or are the better options that time of year to drive in, or no options? I don't mind a days walk out and back, have plenty of time

It's my understanding that seasonal road closures are in place until end of October/Melbourne cup weekend. file:///D:/DOWNLOADS/SRC2022-Map-34A-Alpine-National-Park-West-A.pdf
The gate on Cobbler Lake Track (just above Lake Cobbler) is 2WD and good to drive to via Whitfield.
It's a bit slow after leaving the bitumen after Cheshunt, but no dramas in a 2WD.
It's a 13km stroll to Camp creek from the gate.

Thanks Baeng, lake cobbler Rd it is then.

No worries.
Unless I'm mistaken, this is your second AAWT.
Aren't your legs tired from all the different long distance hikes? :)
Apologies if I've got the wrong Jones.
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby Anotherjonesy » Thu 01 Sep, 2022 9:25 am

Bit of a hiker hobble going at the minute. Yeah second go at it, spring this time but.
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby Baeng72 » Thu 01 Sep, 2022 9:38 am

Anotherjonesy wrote:Bit of a hiker hobble going at the minute. Yeah second go at it, spring this time but.

AZT, Larapinta, Heysen, Bilbumun, next AAWT. I'd have stumps where my legs were if I did that...We're in Spring, get going. :wink:
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby Anotherjonesy » Thu 01 Sep, 2022 10:21 am

6 weeks off, some spring time fishing first. Might squeeze in the Great Ocean walk for a quick tune up before AAWT
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby Baeng72 » Thu 01 Sep, 2022 10:32 am

Nice work. Looking forward to the youtube vids.
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby Baeng72 » Wed 07 Sep, 2022 5:51 am

Quick question for snow boffins.
I may head up to the Cross Cut area in the next week, usual caveats apply....

Tomorrow (Thurs 7) has predicted rain up to 30mm with snow above 1800m (from forecasts I've seen).
Would that rain wash away a lot of the snow on peaks like Howitt, Cross Cut & Speculation?
I think there is follow up snow on Friday & less on Saturday.

Also, just to satisfy my curiosity, 30mm of rain means on a flat square surface, over a day, enough rain would fall so that the surface would be covered by 30mm of water.
If a prediction is for 3cm of snow, is that just a unit conversion? 30mm = 3cm? Or is it more complex than that because snow doesn't pack down like liquid water?
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby Xplora » Wed 07 Sep, 2022 7:37 am

One square metre, one mm rain = one litre of water. That is how it works. 30mm = 30 litres of water over a metre and will wash away a fair bit. Don't count on any snow top up in the next week to fix that. A basic rule of thumb for snow is as you say. Spring snow may can go from solid ice to slushy once the sun hits it but southern slopes can stay icy all day. Hard to know how much snow will be left but my gut feeling is not much. Always a difficult time to determine what gear you take. Having it and not needing it may be better than the alternative.

Basically rain from Thurs to Sat and could be 50+ mm. Monday and Tues looking good but cold.
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby Baeng72 » Wed 07 Sep, 2022 8:19 am

Xplora wrote:One square metre, one mm rain = one litre of water. That is how it works. 30mm = 30 litres of water over a metre and will wash away a fair bit. Don't count on any snow top up in the next week to fix that. A basic rule of thumb for snow is as you say. Spring snow may can go from solid ice to slushy once the sun hits it but southern slopes can stay icy all day. Hard to know how much snow will be left but my gut feeling is not much. Always a difficult time to determine what gear you take. Having it and not needing it may be better than the alternative.

Basically rain from Thurs to Sat and could be 50+ mm. Monday and Tues looking good but cold.

Thanks!
Good advice.


I thought rainfall readings were a bit more general.
Volume = l x w x h.
So, 1mm height in 1 sqm meter = 1 x 1000 x 1000 = 1000,000 mm3 = 1 litre per m2 as you say
But, if we're talking a 10m square = 1 * 10000 * 10000 = 100,000,000 mm3 = 100 litres per 10 ms2 = 1 litre per m2.
0.5m square = 0.5 * 1000 * 1000 = 500,000 m3 = 0.5 litre per 0.5m2 = 1 litre per m2.
I'm probably wrong, but it's how I understood rainfall gauges working with a much smaller collection area.
Apologies for the digression and probably bad math. :)
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Wed 07 Sep, 2022 10:38 pm

The Buller / Howitt area is finished/ over/ kaput for snow. The Bogong High Plains area would be the next best bet esp. Roper's hut. The area above it was loaded with full snow cover on Sunday. It was great for spring Telemark touring / XC BC skiing.
The Main Range in Spring esp . when the road to Charlotte Pass reopens in October will be the place to go for spring snow.
Baw Baw might get enough snow on 16/9/22 to make a ski trip out there on 17/9/22 worth paying the money to park there and buying the ski tows ticket.
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Thu 08 Sep, 2022 6:59 pm

If you are really Keen then Selwyn Creek road is open all year round and is 2 WD suitable. That will take you up to the AAWT on the Twins track. Then you have a slog over to Mt. Spec. from there through the Dry Barry Mountains.
You approach via the Buckland Valley road which starts near the Bright/ Wang./ Mt. Buffalo roundabout . The Buckland valley road is sealed at first and then becomes a dirt road which is 2 wd suitable.
early-mid Spring should be okay for finding water .
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby Baeng72 » Fri 09 Sep, 2022 5:31 am

paidal_chalne_vala wrote:If you are really Keen then Selwyn Creek road is open all year round and is 2 WD suitable. That will take you up to the AAWT on the Twins track. Then you have a slog over to Mt. Spec. from there through the Dry Barry Mountains.
You approach via the Buckland Valley road which starts near the Bright/ Wang./ Mt. Buffalo roundabout . The Buckland valley road is sealed at first and then becomes a dirt road which is 2 wd suitable.
early-mid Spring should be okay for finding water .

Keen is the word.
I couldn't find exactly where Selwyn Creek rd intersects the AAWT on Google, but I think I got the general area, near Murray's Hut?
In any case, that appears to be a long walk from Mt. Spec and a long drive before hand.
I might have to turn around by the time I got to the Viking given my leisurely pace. :)

I'm keeping an eye on the weather and will probably head back in via Cobbler Tk if I go.

The walk along the Howqua feeder (easier than up 8 mile Spur and along the ridge past Magdala) from 8 mile flat seems to be a day long job and unfortunately I don't have all the time in the world.

I would like to do your trip in Green Season, as well as walk along the Howqua and also from the Bluff to XCut some day.
Got so many walks in that area I'd like t tick off.
I see why it's a top walking area.
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Fri 09 Sep, 2022 8:35 am

If you go to Lake Cobbler again then you must walk up to the summit of Mount Cobbler. It is one of the Buller / Howitt area must do walks.


In fact from 8 mile Gap you can, with care and due caution get a 2 WD down to the Upper Jamieson river on Brock's road . There are camp sites along there and then the slog up the Mt. Clear spur MVO track is a cracker. The summit of Mt. Clear on a sunny day is worth the effort.
The Clear Creek track has a locked gate in winter and the Nobs Track is a very steep jeep track but affords access to Mt. McDonald and the AAWT and Twin Nobs.
Get the AAWT guide book and the Bushwalks in the Vic. alps guide book for more details.
On a Friday night you can get a fair way in to camp in the vicinity, going past Sheepyard flat.

Once you have exhausted the possibilities of this region then the Bogong High Plains await.In fact reports suggest that the Fainters still have quite a bit of snow on top of them.
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby Baeng72 » Fri 09 Sep, 2022 9:18 am

Mt Cobbler looks huge on the road in. I reckon that would be enough to do me in. We'll see.
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby north-north-west » Fri 09 Sep, 2022 2:08 pm

Baeng72 wrote:Mt Cobbler looks huge on the road in. I reckon that would be enough to do me in. We'll see.


It's relatively short, easy walk from the lake and the scramble onto the true summit is not difficult. You got up Helicopter, you can do Cobbler.
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Fri 09 Sep, 2022 3:52 pm

Mount Cobbler is an
easy walk up from the Lake and a simple crab crawl to the true summit up some rocks. You gotta do it laddie!
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby Baeng72 » Fri 09 Sep, 2022 4:19 pm

Didn't realize this. I just figured it was another endless slog with an exposed scramble at top.
Sounds more like drop pack at turnoff, climb up & back, grab pack and then head onwards, side-trip kind of deal.
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby Xplora » Sat 10 Sep, 2022 7:20 am

Baeng72 wrote:Didn't realize this. I just figured it was another endless slog with an exposed scramble at top.
Sounds more like drop pack at turnoff, climb up & back, grab pack and then head onwards, side-trip kind of deal.


It would be a good side trip that will cost an hour or so. You don't return via the creek track if heading out to Spec Road. Just head along the ridge line basically south until it picks up the Lake Cobbler road again not far from the Spec Road intersection. Alternatively you could do it on the way back.
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby Baeng72 » Mon 12 Sep, 2022 8:11 am

Crosscut was looking majestic yesterday:
WNVF1799.jpg
Crosscut

Is this the famous Spec snowgum?
IMG_5191.jpg
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Wed 14 Sep, 2022 2:48 pm

NO. That is definitely not the famous Mt. Spec. snow gum.
You will see it here in
this trip report.
https://www.ski.com.au/xf/threads/photo ... ike.79982/
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby Baeng72 » Wed 14 Sep, 2022 7:33 pm

paidal_chalne_vala wrote:NO. That is definitely not the famous Mt. Spec. snow gum.
You will see it here in
this trip report.
https://www.ski.com.au/xf/threads/photo ... ike.79982/

I probably wasn't even on Mt Spec then.
I thought it was an obvious tree.
I think it was the the closest snow gum to the summit in the picture.
Oh well. Doesn't matter. I suck at this stuff.
The whole trip was a bit of a failure.
You gotta laugh.
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Wed 14 Sep, 2022 9:27 pm

You are rather keen but somehow manage to miss out on hitting the bullseye for what each place has to offer. At least you try ,try and try again.
I seem to find the right weather window and get a good result each time I go somewhere new in the Australian Alps.
However it took me some years before I managed to make it from Mac. Springs to Mt. Spec. and back in one Bushwalking trip.
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Re: Advice for accessing the Crosscut Saw

Postby paidal_chalne_vala » Sun 25 Sep, 2022 9:43 am

If you are really keen and have much more than a mere weekend to do it then this route will get you into the thick of the area during the winter locked gate period.
Carter's road/ Tomahawak gap/ Road no. 3/ Weston's track / King Basin Rd./ Speculation Road/ The stair case on Spec. road/ Mt. Speculation/ Mt. Buggery / The Cross cut saw/


From the Cross cut saw either you follow the Howitt spur( Howitt spur/Upper Howqua campsite.)
or the Thorn Range " track" over to Stanely name gap and the Circuit road or Bindaree road up to The Circuit road.
Return via Rd. No. 3 and Mt. No.3 refuge hut back to Tomahawk gap.
If there is a proper low snow fall then much of the Circuit road could be XC skiable!!.
Mirospikes/MSR snow shoes would help for the icy wind scoured and icy rocky sections

I feel cold , wet & fatigued just typing this route.
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