Campfires

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Re: Campfires

Postby north-north-west » Wed 13 Jan, 2021 11:19 am

clarence wrote: Anyone who thinks that fires are dirty, slow and inefficient has not seen someone like John light a (small) fire and have his meal cooked while everyone else is still getting their stoves ready.


Cobblers.
He and I start prepping the same meal at the same time from the same start point and my water will be boiling before he can put his billy on the flames.
"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens."
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Re: Campfires

Postby slparker » Wed 13 Jan, 2021 12:13 pm

Yes, campfires do not contribute to Global Warming in any proportional way. But campfires do when they get out of control, so that is one argument against lighting fires.

Yes, First Nations people firestick-farmed the bush but, with some exceptions, they no longer do and the bush is now very different on constitution to 250 years ago so its a naturalistic fallacy to say that campfires are anyway connected to Indigenous practices.

Thirdly, it isn't leave no trace and taking deadfall or, as I have seen, ripping of tree limbs, is changing the local environment around campsites. It is a type of exceptionalism to state that it is 'okay' for me to take just a little a bit of deadfall. Bringing in your own wood is a different matter of course.

But, I agree it is probably more a matter of aesthetics than major environmental harm but I am always mildly offended at a fire in the bush an don't even like it when a fire lit in alpine huts, as cheery as it is in the snow.
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Re: Campfires

Postby Lophophaps » Wed 13 Jan, 2021 3:31 pm

NNW, you need to add the time to get the wood and get water to put the fire out. Even with a good fire a stove is generally faster and easier. In the past I used fires a lot - this was the culture then. I have no idea how fast stoves are to, say, boil water. I've seen stoves do this in just a few minutes, very quick. I was at a hut on the Bogong High Plains a little off the beaten track and was dismayed to see lot of dead standing trees visibly cut for timber. It looked quite bad, as slparker describes above.
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Re: Campfires

Postby north-north-west » Wed 13 Jan, 2021 6:39 pm

Lophophaps wrote:NNW, you need to add the time to get the wood and get water to put the fire out. ..


This is exactly what I'm saying. The stove is quicker. No-one can get organised with a fire and have that fire cook their meal in less time than a gas stove. It takes me less than a minute to go from grabbing the pot from the pack to lighting it, assuming I have water and the pack of whatever-is-being-cooked handy.
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Re: Campfires

Postby Lophophaps » Wed 13 Jan, 2021 6:57 pm

NNW, and you do not have to tip 2-4 litres of water over your gas stove. However, if we are at the same place at the same time I'm happy to do this for you.
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Re: Campfires

Postby north-north-west » Wed 13 Jan, 2021 7:06 pm

Thank you, but the current one is still shiny and new. I'd rather not do anything that might damage it until it's had a bit more use.
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Re: Campfires

Postby crollsurf » Wed 13 Jan, 2021 7:38 pm

Just on fires and stoves there are these double walled "gasifier stoves" that are insane efficient when burning wood. I'd say a 2 foot long twig about 7mm thick will boil a cup of water no worries. https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=370&v=VM0Q3RLykQ4&feature=youtu.be
I bring some Fatwood and a knife/flint along to start the fire and I like that experience. Could you boil a cup of water quicker than a gas stove, not a chance.
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Re: Campfires

Postby Lord Backcountry » Thu 14 Jan, 2021 11:32 am

I still don't really get the logic/law of being able to light an open fire below 1850m (White's River Hut) but not above 1850m in the Alpine zone (The Rolling Grounds).

It's not like a Rolling Grounds open fire is going to get away from you...!?

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Re: Campfires

Postby north-north-west » Thu 14 Jan, 2021 12:46 pm

Lord Backcountry wrote:I still don't really get the logic/law of being able to light an open fire below 1850m (White's River Hut) but not above 1850m in the Alpine zone (The Rolling Grounds).


First, even where it exists fuel for a campfire is limited. Second, alpine ecosystems are extremely fire sensitive and slow to recover. Third, I agree; they should ban fires in the entire NP.
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Re: Campfires

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 14 Jan, 2021 1:07 pm

If you are talking about the grassy plains this is correct but amongst the snowgums there is usually plenty of finger wood and for cooking finger wood is all you need or really should be using.
This is why I still carry a tin can and a billy sometimes, a hobo stove burner is both fuel more efficient and much safer than an open fire and sometimes is enough for atmosphere too. Upside is they are free, downside is the need to a bag to carry them in.
Although a cooking fire is different to a campfire.
Ve are too soon old und too late schmart
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