bushwalking with the hiking pram

[Strider]

well I disagree. What is the alternative and how it is better for the baby?

I think there is a big difference between taking baby outdoors to get some sun, and taking them on a 6 hour bushwalk.

Living in Sydney sounds positively awful

[igor]

Well I never found a sling too hot or too uncomfortable, I do know that my own kidlings were happier in a sling than in a pram or pusher.
I actually do understand what you are saying about traffic and pollution. I had the same feeling when my kids were small and I well remember the big family fight when my wife and I banned smoking in our house ( wifes parents were VERY heavy smokers ) how-ever my point was that the babies needs are for cuddling and contact, that initial close contact has been proved to be important for the future well-being and confidence of the adult the baby becomes.
The purchase cost of the article you link too does not look to be money well spent but that is only my opinion

main reason we've decided to go for this hiking pram/trailer is that it allows with different attachment to hook it up to a bike as well. So we'd be buying some kind of biking trailer anyway. Then there was a question of safety. This CX1 (that actually stands for cross country, 1 child) has extra features related to child safety and comfort. And the price, well as with anything extra 15% improvement would cost twice as much. Like with Toyota and Lexus - the latter is better fractionally but cost almost 50% more. The same with any sport/tourist gear I suppose. Its all about priorities anyway.

[igor]

well I disagree. What is the alternative and how it is better for the baby?

I think there is a big difference between taking baby outdoors to get some sun, and taking them on a 6 hour bushwalk.

Living in Sydney sounds positively awful

yes it is awful, but it pays good

[forest]

Igor no one is suggesting you wait a full year. Even though nappies will be a pain, for day walks your can just deal with it. I'd imagine on a multi day walk they would stack up .
I could just imagine a #3 baby poop (you know, the explosive ones that go everywhere) all over the back for a few days.... nice.

You should be fine in a proper baby backpack once the bay can sit up and hold there head fine while awake. That might happen anywhere from 3-6 months. Depends a bit on neck/spine strength. You will not need to wait until your little bub is a full year old for a baby backpack. It might just be around the near corner and you'll be off.

A little off topic, kind of.

There was a lady filmed on ACA the other week towing one of these trailers around in the busy Sydney CBD streets. When they confronted her about it she sad it was her right to be on the road. But she had a flag !!
Just made me cringe watching this stupid lady weaving in and out of the traffic with a small child in the trailer. I will admitt they look nice as a bike trailer but not on very busy crazy roads.
Just imagine what would become of a child in one of those low slung trailers if a car drove into the back of it.

[maddog]

well I disagree. What is the alternative and how it is better for the baby?

Option 1: Leave the mother and child at home and go for a walk. You could take turns
Option 2: Employ a nanny / babysitter / grandparent, and both go for a walk.
Option 3: Set up a treadmill in front of a large screen TV and watch David Attenborough DVDs. You could put your child in a cot by your side.

Cheers

[igor]

well I disagree. What is the alternative and how it is better for the baby?

Option 1: Leave the mother and child at home and go for a walk. You could take turns
Option 2: Employ a nanny / babysitter / grandparent, and both go for a walk.
Option 3: Set up a treadmill in front of a large screen TV and watch David Attenborough DVDs. You could put your child in a cot by your side.

Cheers

option 1 - not fair for a mother as she likes bushwalking as much as I do, taking turns is not feasible as I don't produce milk
option 2 see above (mother is breastfeeding every 3 or so hrs)
option 3 very funny but seriously we want the child to have a fresh air and the nature. It's not about exercises in a sweaty gym, which we do anyway just to keep us fit. It's about going away from this stinking city.

[eaglehawk]

I don't think there's anything wrong with taking a baby bushwalking all day, the same as I see no problem with carrying baby all day at home while going about household chores. Babies have traditionally always been carried. If bub is safe and content the location isn't that important. The only way I know to achieve this is with a baby wearing sling. Igor has made his decision but in the interests of others reading this here are a few names to research - Ergo, Mei Tei, Hugabub, ring slings. There are plenty and can be as basic as a long piece of fabric. They allow you the flexibility of carrying bub(or toddler) on your front, back, even on hip at your side. Breastfed babies can have ready access to their supply, who wouldn't be happy with that? There are mesh ones for hot climates.

One note on Baby Bjorn - due to the design bub is very vertical and his/her weight is resting on the bottom of his/her spine. Other slings take the weight of bub under the tops of their legs and bottom.

I do think Igor you will have to adjust your expectations by the time the baby is a toddler. Toddlers can walk but won't when you want them to, and can be carried but will want to walk when you pick them up. This is the time to walk on your own.

[igor]

Igor no one is suggesting you wait a full year. Even though nappies will be a pain, for day walks your can just deal with it. I'd imagine on a multi day walk they would stack up .
I could just imagine a #3 baby poop (you know, the explosive ones that go everywhere) all over the back for a few days.... nice.

You should be fine in a proper baby backpack once the bay can sit up and hold there head fine while awake. That might happen anywhere from 3-6 months. Depends a bit on neck/spine strength. You will not need to wait until your little bub is a full year old for a baby backpack. It might just be around the near corner and you'll be off.

A little off topic, kind of.

There was a lady filmed on ACA the other week towing one of these trailers around in the busy Sydney CBD streets. When they confronted her about it she sad it was her right to be on the road. But she had a flag !!
Just made me cringe watching this stupid lady weaving in and out of the traffic with a small child in the trailer. I will admitt they look nice as a bike trailer but not on very busy crazy roads.
Just imagine what would become of a child in one of those low slung trailers if a car drove into the back of it.

This lady was pretty stupid indeed. If it was the same CX1 as we intend to buy it has a stroller and the jogger attachments - either front small wheels like in a shopping trolley or one big 20 inches fixed front wheels. Its probably one of those mums seeking publicity at any cost.
Anyway your saying 3-6 months to be able to sit for a long period without support seems a bit optimistic. I'd say 9 months at least. Are you talking from your own experience? It's all depends what type of walks we are talking about. We plan for a full day walk (say 8 hrs). That would include some stops for feeding, changing etc. Currying all baby supply of nappies (fresh and used), cloth change, toys, mats to etc would take a full size backpack. Then there is our normal water/food supply - another backpack. This is for day trips. Doing overnight would add tent, sleeping bags. There is where this trailer provides another advantage - it has plenty of storage space inside and outside the capsule.

[Strider]

I really don't understand why bushwalking appears to be your first and only priority. I'm actually starting to feel sorry for this poor kid!

[Allchin09]

The first thing that I though of when I saw this topic was this! http://www.nma.gov.au/collections-searc ... ?irn=35849

It may look bit outdated, but it seemed to work back then, so what's wrong with using a hiking pram theses days?

[eaglehawk]

I'd genuinely like to know how you go on an 8hr walk with the pram, please let us know.
I'm guessing you'll end up carrying baby more than pushing him/her. The best use is as a bike trailer I believe.
Our bike trailer is great but our kids can't spend very long in it before they need to get out.

[igor]

I don't think there's anything wrong with taking a baby bushwalking all day, the same as I see no problem with carrying baby all day at home while going about household chores. Babies have traditionally always been carried. If bub is safe and content the location isn't that important. The only way I know to achieve this is with a baby wearing sling. Igor has made his decision but in the interests of others reading this here are a few names to research - Ergo, Mei Tei, Hugabub, ring slings. There are plenty and can be as basic as a long piece of fabric. They allow you the flexibility of carrying bub(or toddler) on your front, back, even on hip at your side. Breastfed babies can have ready access to their supply, who wouldn't be happy with that? There are mesh ones for hot climates.

One note on Baby Bjorn - due to the design bub is very vertical and his/her weight is resting on the bottom of his/her spine. Other slings take the weight of bub under the tops of their legs and bottom.

I do think Igor you will have to adjust your expectations by the time the baby is a toddler. Toddlers can walk but won't when you want them to, and can be carried but will want to walk when you pick them up. This is the time to walk on your own.

I wouldn't be so sure about tradition.
In countries with cold climate the slings are just not feasible. Can you imagine yourself wearing a fur coat and 3-4 layers of clothing and walking with a 3 month old baby in a sling. Imagine what baby should wear to sustain minus 20 cold. And if its a windy day... And if its snowing...
So this "tradition" exists in countries with long summer and no real winter.
That is why over there (northern Europe, Canada, Russia etc) prams of all sorts are in use almost exclusivelly.
Returning to the trailer - it has a sling attachment (and a bivvy for really small a few weeks old). In the sling a baby is positioned under 45 degrees angle which is much better and very secure.
As for comparing bushwalk to walking with baby around the house.
Well IT IS different. In the house you know every santimeter of your surrounding, the temperature is pleasant, there is no wind, no flies either. Walking up the hil on a bush track on uneven surface with say 30 degrees angle for a kilometer or so in a hot day WILL make you sweat. So the baby is rubbing her cheek against my sweaty chest. Not very good for the skin.
I may be didn't make myself clear. I am talking about going to a bushwalk with an infant baby not to a pleasant walk in the park.
I accept the backpack alternative for the older kids, but slings in a long bushwalk...

[igor]

I'd genuinely like to know how you go on an 8hr walk with the pram, please let us know.
I'm guessing you'll end up carrying baby more than pushing him/her. The best use is as a bike trailer I believe.
Our bike trailer is great but our kids can't spend very long in it before they need to get out.

How long they can sit there? One-two hours?

[eaglehawk]

Yes, about an hour and a half, this is when they usually start fighting. They are very close in there.

[igor]

The first thing that I though of when I saw this topic was this! http://www.nma.gov.au/collections-searc ... ?irn=35849

It may look bit outdated, but it seemed to work back then, so what's wrong with using a hiking pram theses days?

nothing apart from the fact that they are VERY expensive and therefore people are not accostomed to see them in the bush. In Russia I used to take my first born in winter in the sledge in cross country skiing trips. He was wearing proper clothing and we were spending for 5-8 hrs on the open with temperature sometimes -15. When he was very little we'd wrap him up in 2-3 thick blankets and he was lying on the sledge, when he could sit I put a supporting back in the sledge and we went skiing. Same concept you see.

[igor]

I really don't understand why bushwalking appears to be your first and only priority. I'm actually starting to feel sorry for this poor kid!

It's not. We also want to go biking and sailing. Unfortunately sailing in the catamaran is definitely out of question until she is 2-3 years old, but hiking and biking should be OK I recon.

[blacksheep]

I don't think Macpac are making/selling child carriers any longer. They were on clearance a few weeks ago, and now have disappeared from their website entirely.

seeing as you mention it...
we have 4 new models we are releasing in about 4 weeks time...thus clearing theprevious models..

[Strider]

I don't think Macpac are making/selling child carriers any longer. They were on clearance a few weeks ago, and now have disappeared from their website entirely.

seeing as you mention it...
we have 4 new models we are releasing in about 4 weeks time...thus clearing theprevious models..

Glad to hear it! Thanks Cam

How about a sharp introductory price for BWA members? You have timed it perfectly with our first baby bonus payment

[Moondog55]

Igor when my kids were little we were living in Khancoban and spent a lot of time in the cold, we tended to dress Eskimo fashion and had our youngest in a sling inside our over sized coats, BTW we also has a pulk set up for kidlings when we went skiing. but for walking we found that using over-sized coats was easier when they were small. I still have my US army M-52 Arctic parka so this alternative is useful. I found that 30 minutes to an hour was as long as any of my children would tolerate a pram/pulk in fact any sort of device that limited their vision and held them strapped down. Even car seats we had to take breaks every hour to allow the kids time to walk and stretch

[blacksheep]

I don't think Macpac are making/selling child carriers any longer. They were on clearance a few weeks ago, and now have disappeared from their website entirely.

seeing as you mention it...
we have 4 new models we are releasing in about 4 weeks time...thus clearing theprevious models..

Glad to hear it! Thanks Cam

How about a sharp introductory price for BWA members? You have timed it perfectly with our first baby bonus payment

keep an eye out in the specials section in about 4 weeks then

[Strider]

How about a sharp introductory price for BWA members? You have timed it perfectly with our first baby bonus payment

keep an eye out in the specials section in about 4 weeks then

[igor]

Igor when my kids were little we were living in Khancoban and spent a lot of time in the cold, we tended to dress Eskimo fashion and had our youngest in a sling inside our over sized coats, BTW we also has a pulk set up for kidlings when we went skiing. but for walking we found that using over-sized coats was easier when they were small. I still have my US army M-52 Arctic parka so this alternative is useful. I found that 30 minutes to an hour was as long as any of my children would tolerate a pram/pulk in fact any sort of device that limited their vision and held them strapped down. Even car seats we had to take breaks every hour to allow the kids time to walk and stretch

Interesting, keeping the child under the coat. Never thought of that.
I'll share our experience when we'll test the trailer, but our intention is yes to stop every now and then, take her out, play and stretch a few minutes and then continue.
We've walked with the normal pram along the coastal track here, from Bondi to Maroobra and back. And this is exactly how it went. A walk for an hour or so then stop, play, walk again, feed etc. It's just the normal pram is not designed for the cross country surface. The wheels are too small and it's not very secure as the baby simply is lying without any safety harness. So taking the steps is immediate problem. With this trailer - first of it's much more robast - made of steel, and alloy. Also it's Canadian not made in Chine, use once throw away things.

[Moondog55]

I for one will be interested in how you go.

[nq111]

Igor - ignore all the doubters - you'll soon enough work out yours (and babies) comfort limits.

My kids got so comfortable in the backpack they would sleep in there all the time - like a ragdoll with head hitting mine on each bump! I had them in there at a 'pushing the boundary' low age (e.g. a bit over 6 months). Now we sure weren't climbing mountains or doing day-long walks with babies but we never had issues with them being uncomfortable or upset. Indeed they loved getting out and seeing new parts of the world from such a high vantage point.

[igor]

So,
we've tested yesterday this hiking pram in the Blue Mountains. The track was a shared MTB/hiking track, very picturesque with magnificent views of Megalong valley. We walked 13 km to the very end of the track where there was a camping site with even more beautiful views on almost 360 degrees. We had a tea break took a lot of pictures and headed back. The surface of the track was pretty rough, with many potholes, small rocks and such. The baby was either sleeping beautifully or watching surroundings almost all those 7 hrs that we've been away fro the car. Never screamed or cried, only "baby talk" a few times when she was particular impressed with the view I recon.
Now about the pram.
It's unbelievably good. The quality of all parts and overall marksmanship. Definitely not a "made in China" piece of rubbish. No squeaking noises, the suspension plus large diameter wheels (20 inch the same as BMS bike) and the internal baby sling makes the ride so pleasurable.
The sling is hummock like with the sane harness as in a typical sling. The material of the hummock has a velvet type finish, very soft and pleasant.
No way any 3 months old baby would spend quietly 7 hrs hiking in a "normal" sling or a backpack.
What do you do about sun, or strong wind, or flies?
With the pram however, the capsule is enclosed from all sides with mesh walls and seeling. It has a 100% UV protective darkened top and side plastic covers, that can be rolled up and down depending on the wind and sun position. It's like in the car with tinted windows - you still can see outside. The pram has huge bag attached behind, smaller bag on the handlebar, mesh storage, and plenty of storage space inside. We've hanged some of her favourite toys inside too.
So despite the fact that we've taken 3 L of juice and 1 L of water, food, blanket, spare cloth for us, rain cover and plenty of nappies and baby cloth, we haven't needed any backpack. I've pulled the pram all the time, on the steep descents my wife helped a bit by applying the brakes slightly. The pram has a brake similar to the normal bike, that you can use when the slope is too steep.
Overall - honestly we didn't regret a single second about the money. A few bikers and runners we've met all asked questions about the pram. Basically if you want to continue hiking while a baby is less than 4-5 years old, and you can afford it of course buy the pram. yes you can't go everywhere, as the track must be wide enough for the pram to pass, but there are plenty of MTB routes around Sydney for us to use while baby is growing.

[Tex]

I am happy to hear your first walk with the new pram was a great success

[Moondog55]

Sounds like it will be suitable for your needs then, looking forward to seeing photos of this pram in action

[igor]

going up

[igor]

side view

[Gusto]

Looks great.

It looks as though it might be handy with a hand controlled brake on for the person/workhorse too. And walking Poles would surely help too.