"Snakes . . . I hate snakes."

[dplanet]

Never had one refuse to budge have had one "bark"at me in my 40 + years of walking in Aus and most I met were heading elsewhere ,have had Lippies Skitter over my Boots and had a Copperhead in my backyard last Summer.

Me too. Have never seen an aggressive snake over two decades of hiking. A few baby snakes were seen running near my boots and in front of me and I was worried to accidentally step on them. Did see an aggressive blue tongue lizard (in defence) on a sandy track.

Don't forget the foxes too, they are everywhere.

ff

+1

[walk2wineries]

Sorry, can't resist.
Q: How do you separate 2 fighting crocodiles?
A: Give 'em a Yank!

[Tortoise]

"Snakes . . . I hate snakes." (Indiana Jones)

How significant of a concern are snakes on the Overland Track (I will be on it in mid-March)

Not much, just use sensible precautions already
mentioned.

and what are recommended approaches to minimizing the risk/harm?

If you have an attack of hay fever - stop walking till you stop sneezing, so you can see who's lying on the sunny track in front of you.
Edit: And if you're silly enough to keep walking with your eyes closed to sneeze every few seconds, and very nearly tread on a snake, don't repeat the mistake

[MickyB]

Sorry, can't resist.
Q: How do you separate 2 fighting crocodiles?
A: Give 'em a Yank!

[north-north-west]

Edit: And if you're silly enough to keep walking with your eyes closed to sneeze every few seconds, and very nearly tread on a snake, don't repeat the mistake

Meh. I've twice trod on tiger snakes and their only reaction was to cringe and huddle deeper into the scrub. (Of course, you have to pick your snakes carefully to get away with this.)

[dunamis]

I nearly stepped on one two weeks ago near Pelion Hut. It was coiled up on the other side of a gap between two logs. I stepped through and was about to put my foot down and got a nice surprise. It was a big tiger. Obviously it didn't hang around.

I'm thinking hibernation might be a myth given it was the last weekend of winter.

The snakes won't get through gaiters and boots. I walk in leggings or shorts with gaiters on at all times.

[walkerchris77]

Heard on the radio yesterday an interview by a snake handler that said they are coming out now and hes catching them closer to Melbourne than ever before. He said the most dangerous one hes encountered is a brown.

[michael_p]

I've had two snake encounters in the last month (8 days apart actually).

One was a large Swamp snake and the other a small Brown snake. Spotted the Swamp snake from a few metres away but the Brown was a bit scary as I was looking up for a Koala that I knew was in the vicinity (spotted a few days before) and didn't see the snake until it slithered away from in front of my left foot.

[walkerchris77]

Did u need to use the toilet paper Michael. !

[michael_p]

Did u need to use the toilet paper Michael. !

It was a close call.

[ErichFromm]

I had a huge black snake slither across the path in front of me in ledederg park a few months back. Have no idea what type but was huge and as thick as my upper forearm. It barely noticed me though and I stayed clear of the brush it disappeared into on the way back.

Also had a friend trip on a snake and flick it back at me as it got caught on his feet. That woke me up!

[michael_p]

Have a look at the monster in this story from the SMH today: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/massive-redbellied-black-has-snake-catcher-rethinking-his-call-out-fee-20141002-10oylh.html.

[Lindsay]

*&%$#! hell! Imagine coming across that.........change of underwear needed - and no one would believe you afterward.

[wayno]

at Lake St Clair theres a log book where people enter the snakes they've seen in the area. quite a few entries for tiger snakes... I just about stepped on one, a very small one.

[neilmny]

at Lake St Clair theres a log book where people enter the snakes they've seen in the area. quite a few entries for tiger snakes... I just about stepped on one, a very small one.

Lucky you weren't wearing your jandles Wayno

[Chris-a]

We had 5 snake encounters in 2 days last weekend at Cape Conran while out walking. Red bellied black snakes, a brown and the rather large Tiger snake in the pic below. He wasn't going anywhere in a hurry so we turned back after snapping the pic.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[walkerchris77]

Big fellow.

[wayno]

i thought aussie bushwalkers would be expert snake charmers by now, you've got more than enough subject matter to practice one...

[neilmny]

It's simple don't try to charm, tame or mame just avoid them.

[corvus]

Deleted as it had been posted b4 from SMH sit

[walkerchris77]

If your bitten out bush and set off your plb does the rescue chopper have anti venom on board and do they still have to know the type of snake for it to work

anyone know

[wander]

Short answer, yes it is good to know the type of snake.

EDIT, but now see post below. Answer would still appear to be yes, but not as critical as in the past. Do not get bitten trying to have the snake for ID, it is not that important.

If the type of snake is certain you get the specific anti-venom.

If you do not know you may get a general anti-venom which is not as effective.

But these things are changing all the time as research and so on improves medicos ability to respond.

Last edited by wander on Thu 09 Oct, 2014 10:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

[wander]

Seemingly current advice from The University of Sydney is;

"Snake Identification

Before the advent of polyvalent antivenoms it was extremely important to positively identify the snake. Although less important now, it remains highly desirable, because snake-specific antivenoms are less hazardous to the patient than polyvalent antivenoms. Snake identification can be very difficult if it was seen fleetingly or in poor light. Scale patterns and colours can be quite unreliable, especially for brown snakes."

More info and source of above quote is at

http://sydney.edu.au/medicine/anaesthesia/resources/venom/snakebite.html


A little more reading is here. Get a cuppa 1st, it'll take a while to get through.

http://www.toxinology.com/generic_static_files/cslavh_snakes_general.html


A simple explanation of how ant-venom is made

http://www.reptilepark.com.au/about-us/research-venom/venom-production/snake-venom/

[icefest]

Don't wipe the wound. A large part of identification is done via the residues of the venom on the site of the bite. Ditto for the pants that it bit through.

Also, mark the site of the bite on top of the bandage. Ambo's/ED staff like knowing where it was (for the venom swab) and you'll be better off if they just cut that site free.

(they use a kit like this: http://www.csl.com.au/docs/92/398/SVDK_ ... flet,0.pdf )

[flyfisher]

I believe all three Tasmanian species have the same anti-venene.

ff

[jackhinde]

In no particular order, addressing a variety of points raised above...

No Australian snakes hibernate (that is what mammals like bears do), some may brumate.

The ID of the snake will be determined by the CSL kit (even if it was a pet and you know exactly what bit you!), the CSL kits are not fool proof (some doctors depressingly get excited and don't follow instructions), nor are they always spot on (I know of false positives from python bites), but they save help lives most of the time.

Don't kill or capture the animal to take it to hospital, because they will have about as much idea about what it is as you probably do- and then some poor sap like me has to drive to the hospital and collect/ID it, thus you'll put more people in danger of a bite.
Marking the bite site on the bandage is certainly a good idea... i doubt that you would ever get bitten through trousers, maybe if they were thin or tight fitting, quite simply most of our species have tiny fangs.

Yes copperheads in tassie will be treated with tiger snake anti venom, a bite from a whiter lipped snake shouldn't require anti venom treatment at all.

The ambulance or the helicopter will not carry anti venom, it is something that only a doctor in a hospital will administer- and is quite a dangerous product in itself so you want lots of machine that go ping nearby... except for taipans and arguably brown snakes it really is a last resort tool that should only be required if you are quite symptomatic, the vast majority of snake bites with our larger dangerous species are 'dry' bites, the animals give you a nip but don't waste their precious venom on something they are not going to eat.

Get the bandages (yes plural, the more limb coverage the better) on as quick as possible, even over clothes if needs be. Remember that the compression bandage alone is not enough, you also have to keep the bite area and associated body part still as the venom will travel via the lymphatic system which is pumped by muscular movement.

Even with highly toxic species you have hours if the first aid is applied correctly.

Do not let the ambos take it off or try and adjust it- some of them can be a bit clueless regarding snake bite! In fact, I wouldn't let the hospital staff remove it until you have the drip in- once it is removed the venom can take a short time to send you over the edge and you want them focussing on medication not wasting precious minutes have a nurse find a vein and putting in the drip from which anti venom may be administered through.

And finally, that poor red belly appearing in all the print media is not 10 kilos, it would be lucky to be 2 or 3, and it only appears large because the tosser with the tongs is holding it well forward fisherman style to force a false perspective... and tongs? for a friendly black snake... he needs a new job alright!

[Strider]

Actually bears do not hibernate, as it would require far too much energy to rouse them from their slumber. If I remember second year animal physiology lectures correctly, they simply reduce the speed of their metabolism and go into a extended period of fasting.

[GPSGuided]

Actually bears do not hibernate, as it would require far too much energy to rouse them from their slumber. If I remember second year animal physiology lectures correctly, they simply reduce the speed of their metabolism and go into a extended period of fasting.

Wiki actually suggests otherwise. Comes down to how one defines hibernation I guess. Metabolic suppression, then yes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hibernation

Interesting how they can stop their muscle atrophy. Ummm....

[skibug]

jackhynde wrote:

"Remember that the compression bandage alone is not enough, you also have to keep the bite area and associated body part still as the venom will travel via the lymphatic system which is pumped by muscular movement. "

I've wondered aloud before, maybe Jack you could help - does it make sense to keep the bitten limb below the torso, to "trap" the venom in that limb, so the lymph fluid would "pool"? I'm thinking that, for example, if your left hand were bitten, you'd sit leaning against a tree, with the hand held low next to the hip, rather than (say) in your lap. Obviously this is after compression bandages, and staying as motionless and relaxed as possible. Any thoughts on this idea.

TIA,

skibug

[GPSGuided]

Incremental benefit if any. Bear in mind also that with a dependent position and tight bandage, there'll be pooling in the extremities also. Not necessarily beneficial. A comfortable position foremost or just chop it off.