ADVICE TO NICE GUYS

[MickyB]

I hope no one is confusing me with mickb as I certainly don't agree with his views .

[devoswitch]

I don't know why you would think people would be confused.... Your names aren't even similar

[Nuts]

Suz has every right to feel safe, I can't imagine the situation but that is pretty much the bottom line, a level of empathy. It must be horrible.
As for the stifling, congregational smashing of anything that doesn't align with my view, i'll avoid commenting.., hopefully leaving nothing here myself to smash and the smashee's feeling their standing (or avatar) or alignment is intact.

[DarrenM]

I hope no one is confusing me with mickb as I certainly don't agree with his views .

No MickyB, I knew straight away it wasn't you. Hope you are well mate!

[MickyB]

I hope no one is confusing me with mickb as I certainly don't agree with his views .

No MickyB, I knew straight away it wasn't you. Hope you are well mate!

Cheers mate. Please don't think that comment was aimed directly at you. It was for anyone who was getting confused (which I know of a few people who were)

I don't know why you would think people would be confused.... Your names aren't even similar

You don't think they are similar? y?

[Lophophaps]

The names are the same in that neither has numbers or is in Russian. I get confused with such things, many years of application and study. My take on whales is different: Keep gay whales in the ground. For information, I've never opened a door for whale.

[Pterodactyl]

I dunno. Suz is right, being stared at like that would be unnerving. My technique, if you can call it that, has never changed in over 60 years of walking around the bush. If I see someone out of greeting range I give a slight wave or some form of acknowledgement. If I meet someone on the track it's eye contact and "How ya going?" or similar. If I find myself camping in proximity, much the same. I approach directly and "How ya going?", "Good walk?", or "When's the rain gunna stop" or whatever. The response I get determines wether the conversation continues. I'm generally a private sort of person, an "independent" walker, so it's no big deal either way. I just feel that people are much more comfortable knowing who they are dealing with. And so am I.

I've meet all sort of people on the track. Funnily enough some of the rather more outlandish (I'm very straight, so to speak) turn out to be the most interesting. I've run the whole gamut. I'm an old bloke now and couldn't say boo to a goose. In my younger years I may have looked as though I could go a few rounds, but, either way, in all that time I've never felt uncomfortable or threatened. Lucky I guess. Many years ago I had a very lucky encounter when, in NZ, a chamois shooter recognised that I was in dire hypothermia and saved my *&%$#!. I count myself fortunate that he took the trouble to say "How ya going?"

Cheers

[Lindsay]

I have stayed out of this topic until now, but given the way this is going it's time to add my two cents worth. I found the OP to be very patronising. Because she had what she perceived as a bad experience with a male staring at her on a walk, the OP decided to give a lecture to ALL males on what they should and should not do when encountering females in the bush. If you had an uncomfortable experience by all means talk about it, but spare us the lectures. They do not go down well when aimed at males in general, rather than at the individual causing the problem.

[north-north-west]

We've already done the #notallmen thing, Lindsay. Maybe you could read the responses to those comments and try for a bit of understanding rather than handing out a (patronising) lecture to someone who is simply trying to find a little consideration.

[whitefang]

I have stayed out of this topic until now, but given the way this is going it's time to add my two cents worth. I found the OP to be very patronising. Because she had what she perceived as a bad experience with a male staring at her on a walk, the OP decided to give a lecture to ALL males on what they should and should not do when encountering females in the bush. If you had an uncomfortable experience by all means talk about it, but spare us the lectures. They do not go down well when aimed at males in general, rather than at the individual causing the problem.

It is every males responsibility to make sure that women can feel safe wherever they are. You don't get to decide how they feel. But if a woman says what makes her uncomfortable then you need to listen.

Last edited by whitefang on Sat 23 Jul, 2016 10:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

[taipan821]

I have stayed out of this topic until now, but given the way this is going it's time to add my two cents worth. I found the OP to be very patronising. Because she had what she perceived as a bad experience with a male staring at her on a walk, the OP decided to give a lecture to ALL males on what they should and should not do when encountering females in the bush. If you had an uncomfortable experience by all means talk about it, but spare us the lectures. They do not go down well when aimed at males in general, rather than at the individual causing the problem.

Lindsay, suz is asking nicely if us blokes would be gentlemen on the trail, not perverts...its a simple request. I would believe this happens quite often and I've had blokes hurl abuse at me and female team members just because we were hiking

So thank you suz for reminding us all that we as bushwalkers are responsible for our image, and we should act in due accordance on the trail

[puredingo]

I have stayed out of this topic until now, but given the way this is going it's time to add my two cents worth. I found the OP to be very patronising. Because she had what she perceived as a bad experience with a male staring at her on a walk, the OP decided to give a lecture to ALL males on what they should and should not do when encountering females in the bush. If you had an uncomfortable experience by all means talk about it, but spare us the lectures. They do not go down well when aimed at males in general, rather than at the individual causing the problem.

Cry me a river. It is every males responsibility to make sure that women can feel safe wherever they are. You don't get to decide how they feel. But if a woman says what makes her uncomfortable then you need to listen.

Careful there, son...this is an equal opportunity thread and you're in seriousness breech of the patronisation clause. And besides the attitude expressed in this thread by the female fraternity is one of total independence and in no way wanting nor needing the assistance of us perverted, repressive, aggressive Neanderthals.

Just be sure to never make direct eye contact, approach in a submissive non threatening manner and keep you voice calm and soothing.

[whitefang]

I have stayed out of this topic until now, but given the way this is going it's time to add my two cents worth. I found the OP to be very patronising. Because she had what she perceived as a bad experience with a male staring at her on a walk, the OP decided to give a lecture to ALL males on what they should and should not do when encountering females in the bush. If you had an uncomfortable experience by all means talk about it, but spare us the lectures. They do not go down well when aimed at males in general, rather than at the individual causing the problem.

Cry me a river. It is every males responsibility to make sure that women can feel safe wherever they are. You don't get to decide how they feel. But if a woman says what makes her uncomfortable then you need to listen.

Careful there, son...this is an equal opportunity thread and you're in seriousness breech of the patronisation clause. And besides the attitude expressed in this thread by the female fraternity is one of total independence and in no way wanting nor needing the assistance of us perverted, repressive, aggressive Neanderthals.

Just be sure to never make direct eye contact, approach in a submissive non threatening manner and keep you voice calm and soothing.

My apologies, I just get very annoyed by the "Not all men" responses and I should have waited to let my anger settle before sending my reply. I have edited my post.

In regards to your other point my message wasn't meant to reflect that I think women need the help of men. My sentiment was that all men should behave in a non-threatening manner to women (or anyone). The responses here show that there are a lot of wonderfully independent women out there, but that they still have to be aware of what might and could happen to them at the hands of a man. It's every man's responsibility to act non-threatening so women don't have to live with this fear. Even if, as a man, you don't act in that manner it's your responsibility to speak up against those that do. Not speaking up against it is just as bad.

[Lindsay]

I see the outrage bus has well and truly filled up. All these people rushing to establish their 'nice guy' credentials.

[whitefang]

I see the outrage bus has well and truly filled up. All these people rushing to establish their 'nice guy' credentials.

Didn't you voice your opinion to establish yourself as a 'nice guy' because you felt patronised by the OP?

[Giddy_up]

I see the outrage bus has well and truly filled up. All these people rushing to establish their 'nice guy' credentials.

I see you lecturing those about not being lectured, interesting position that you're taking!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Snowzone]

A plea to all... Respect to All.

The majority of bushwalkers are great people. Every now and then you come across someone that makes you feel uncomfortable. Put distance between you. If they truly are a creep then telling them not to stare is probably not going to make any difference. Move on.

Bushwalking is a non sexist pastime which is part of what I love about it. I'm sure men could be made feel just as uncomfortable out there.

[GPSGuided]

Ok, the social norm has just been reset by BWA. All good.

[Hermione]

A plea to all... Respect to All.

The majority of bushwalkers are great people. Every now and then you come across someone that makes you feel uncomfortable. Put distance between you. If they truly are a creep then telling them not to stare is probably not going to make any difference. Move on.
Bushwalking is a non sexist pastime which is part of what I love about it. I'm sure men could be made feel just as uncomfortable out there.

I totally agree snowzone can't we just all get along (naive I know). In regards to men feeling uncomfortable , walking to my car after work last night there was a guy not far in front of me also heading to pay for his parking, he suddenly noticed me in his peripheral vision and nearly jumped out of his skin and got quite annoyed with me. Probably he was just embarrassed for showing his fear but I in no way meant to sneak up on him and was very apologetic yet he still seemed rather aggrieved.

[slparker]

two things that opened my eyes:
some years years ago I alighted a train behind a lady and I was looking for an address in a Melbourne suburb and she, presumably, was on her way home. It turned out that every turn in the street that she made I followed. It also turned out that the r.m. Williams boots that I was wearing were making a loud 'clop clop' behind her. For hundreds of metres, whatever turn she made, in progressively narrower and darker streets she would hear the inexorable footfall of a stranger behind her.
I could see her becoming more tense as we walked. What was I to do? Call out and say 'Hey, Im not a killer'? Try and overtake her? Cross the street and go out of my way?
Anyway, it turned out that I found my address and she went on but it struck me afterwards how her body language seemed to display vulnerability and fear.

I was listening to the radio the other day and a woman 'transitioning' to a male was talking about becoming a man. One thing he said was that he could not feel comfortable, even now as a man, being alone in the street at night. He said that socialisation as a girl means being told how vulnerable you are and how dangerous it is to be alone.

Now most sexual violence occurs in the home, or from men that women know, but the point of this post is that these stats mean nothing to someone who feels vulnerable.
men can not understand the vulnerability that women are encultured to feel and the least that we can do when we are in the bush is to be friendly, keep a respectful distance, avert the male gaze and display a non threatening body language.

[ribuck]

Cross the street and go out of my way?

Yes. Do cross the street. Lots of males, myself included, do that so that a solo female doesn't become scared. It's just urban etiquette.

[geoskid]

[quote="slparker"]
some years years ago I alighted a train behind a lady and I was looking for an address in a Melbourne suburb and she, presumably, was on her way home. It turned out that every turn in the street that she made I followed. It also turned out that the r.m. Williams boots that I was wearing were making a loud 'clop clop' behind her. For hundreds of metres, whatever turn she made, in progressively narrower and darker streets she would hear the inexorable footfall of a stranger behind her.
I could see her becoming more tense as we walked. What was I to do? Call out and say 'Hey, Im not a killer'? Try and overtake her? Cross the street and go out of my way?
quote]

If you are aware that you are making someone uncomfortable - Then. Just .Stop.

At least you were aware - a step up from some.

[GPSGuided]

Cross the street and go out of my way?

Yes. Do cross the street. Lots of males, myself included, do that so that a solo female doesn't become scared. It's just urban etiquette.

Wow, that's some effort. If all normal people do that, anyone behind would be highly suspicious.

Seriously, rarely have I had people walking at the same speed as me. Almost always there'll be a differential. I'd suspect the worried would walk faster and gain an increasing separation.

[puredingo]

I remember this one time, I was travelling home on the train, it was late at night, there was this one girl, alone, in the carriage....I seen her fidget, I assumed it was my presence making her uneasy so being the considerate gentleman I was raised to be, I quickly wrenched the doors apart and lept out....as I somersaulted at high speed along gravely ballast a single thought ran constantly through my mind....the worlds gone mad....

[north-north-west]

What was I to do? Call out and say 'Hey, I'm not a killer'? Try and overtake her? Cross the street and go out of my way?

If someone is sufficiently unnerved by your presence then yes, the best thing is to remove it. I know it's a nuisance, but that's the world we live in.
Calling out won't work. In fact, it may well be counter-productive. Your voice will confirm you're a male and making it plain that you're aware that person is uncomfortable with your presence could well make them even more uncomfortable.

[north-north-west]

I remember this one time, I was travelling home on the train, it was late at night, there was this one girl, alone, in the carriage....I seen her fidget, I assumed it was my presence making her uneasy so being the considerate gentleman I was raised to be, I quickly wrenched the doors apart and lept out....as I somersaulted at high speed along gravely ballast a single thought ran constantly through my mind....the worlds gone mad....

Overkill. Just keep your distance and remain still, calm and in view.

[Nuts]

Got it, right. Just read similar advice for Grizzly Bears, sounds easy enough.

[GPSGuided]

Courtesy gone mad. Rather than minding one's own business, now we need to assess other's reaction to our presence, whether they are fidgety and whether it's due to our presence.

[hairypanic]

Cross the street and go out of my way?

Yes. Do cross the street. Lots of males, myself included, do that so that a solo female doesn't become scared. It's just urban etiquette.

I think that this isn't a female issue, if I had another guy following me like that at night i'd be a bit concerned too.

It really isn't hard to cross a road, if you feel awkward following someone then they will probably be far more awkward being followed

[ribuck]

now we need to assess other's reaction to our presence, whether they are fidgety and whether it's due to our presence.

It's called empathy.