Bushwalk Australia

A follow up discussion that came out of an earlier "Being prepared" thread.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15117

The question is, in the age of electronic gadgets (PLB, EPIRB, SPOT, GPS, Smartphone mapping), have they enhanced your confidence in navigating the unknown? More importantly, has it led to complacency in your preparation for the worst? Whilst it is true that it's much harder to be lost with a functioning mapping GPS unit on hand, is it still necessary to prepare and anticipate as much on the common day walks? How about on longer walks?

Let the poll and discussions begin!

Ive had a GPS for 12-13 years now maybe more, i bought one as soon as i could afford it however ive always continued to buy paper maps and i couldnt imagine ever going bush without paper maps. In my adult life of hiking ive never not had a GPS with me so ive kinda never had a different feeling towards going bush and getting lost etc...

One of my good friends today still refuses to own, use or simply look at a gps. Im a little jealous of his navigating skills with a paper map but personally i enjoy knowing ive always got the GPS there to confirm im going where i think im going.

GPS's today sure have come a long way, my first cost me approx $800 + iirc about $500 for the mapping software. Today i have the etrex 30 with the Garmin topo maps which cost less then $300 all up. However im not sure this one will last half as long as my old unit.

Travis.

Using a mapping GPS has changed my preparations for bushwalks.

Specifically, before any multiday walk, I update the maps with the latest versions.

I also check that I have adequate battery power to complete the walk with enough spare capacity to cover delays and accidental depletion of power (forgetting to turn it off overnight) Same applies to the satellite communicator.

Paper map preparations go hand in hand with mapping GPS prep as I carry both.

I've only ever known Hiking with a GPS. I'm young :s

I remember about 10 (+?) years ago I got my first PLB and GPS when work bought them as apart of our 'safety management' system and they both became a part of the off-duty kit fairly quickly. Do I rely solely on them and do I always carry them? No, the 'where' 'what' and 'when' decide what kit I carry. Do I understand how they work and their limitations? You bet, and that probably the crux of many traditionalists' concern.

I don't buy the full on denialists' argument as credible if they are kitted up in anything but the good old Dunlop volleys and canvas packs etc (as I'm generous in allowing some 'technology' as I would be a bit scared if I encountered a technology-free(ie nude) walker out there

I have been a gadget geek for years but I have also had some field failures so I still rely on common sense and experience, paper maps as well as the gadgets. Having also survived the change from AGD66 to GDA94 made me much more aware about getting the correct coordinates so you don't end up thrashing around in the scrub.

Most of the gadgets don't like the cold, water and foul weather so being prepared when using lots of gadgets can also mean having to carry lots of "back up bits", especially if you are days from a road head and still needing to get the job done.

Of course all this has nothing to do with "being prepared" for a personal accident etc so in reality I have not really changed my trip planning for those situations.

I agree with the above commentaries that preparing for a walk with "gadgets" can be a major task in itself, both in time and monetarily. GPS is handy and time saving but can be done without with the right traditional skills. However, what really has made a difference in trip preparations as well as whilst out there has been my iPhone (assuming still within mobile coverage area). I am now so much more confident in deciding what gear to take given the up to date weather report, projections and the doppler radar. I now know with certainty of any approaching weather and can gauge an ETA on the dynamic screen display. Love it!

PLB is another matter. So simple, so confidence inducing.

I always take a paper map as well as a GPS when I go hiking off track. I rarely use the GPS but it has been beneficial a few times. I think anyone who goes hiking, especially off track, should have at least a basic understanding of how to read a map. I don't own a PLB but it is something I will invest in. I believe in safety in numbers so currently, for the harder off track hikes, I will always go with someone

I don't own a gps receiver but I do carry a SPOT Messenger. It's that I'm a traditionalist but that I just don't do the kind walking that, too my mind, warrants a gps receiver. I study paper maps a little more than my friends who use GPS receivers it seems (might just be them) and I'm in the habit of marking my progress regularly and having a look again at nearby features on the map when I do. I have been with friends carrying a GPS that missed worthwhile noting features that were clear as day to me looking at my map. I suspect most gps users also carry maps though, so again it might just be them.

I can see where gps services would be very useful. Having said that there are still folks who do some serious walking in a wide range of conditions that get along without gps mapping. Andrew Skurka for example has done some EPIC solo walks without the use of gps mapping, though I know even he has used them from time to time along coastal areas with little topography.

I do feel more comfortable with the SPOT in case of emergency e.g. snakebite or injury I can't safely walk out with. I also use the check-in feature which makes my wife more comfortable, hence me.

MickyB wrote:I don't own a PLB but it is something I will invest in. I believe in safety in numbers so currently, for the harder off track hikes, I will always go with someone

Sorry but I have to disagree with this; harder or offtrack has nothing to do with it. Accidents can happen anywhere, anytime. Most of my walks are daywalks, but since I'm alone a PLB is a must have IMO. People have died or become seriously lost and/or injured on easy daywalks in the past.

If anything, I think carrying a PLB has made me more realistic in how 'the worst' should most appropriately be dealt with. For instance, I used to carry a first aid kit that was around 600g. Since carrying a PLB I have since cut this to 200g, taking into great consideration the full extent of any situation not requiring immediate medical attention. Anything worse than what I am prepared for and it's PLB time anyway.

I'm with Strider on the use of PLB and the fallacy (sometimes) of safety in numbers. Sure, there is safety in numbers in some circumstances - someone else to dress wounds or make a splint, who might walk out when another can't, warmth, extra gear, another head to think with etc. But if everyone in the group is 6 hours from road access and without mobile coverage, then that's where they are. If injury is serious or in case of envenomation, for example, this could double, or more, the time to rescue. Might just end up having company at the time of dying, which I something I suppose. I simply won't go without a PLB or SPOT anymore, as having one and not carrying it would be absurd.

They are inexpensive and compact enough nowdays that I can't see a reason for not carrying at least one per group and always when solo. Each to their own but if it were me and budget was an issue I'd be forgoing some new flash piece of latest and greatest gear for a season and buying a PLB instead.

Strider wrote:Accidents can happen anywhere, anytime.

Strider wrote:since I'm alone a PLB is a must have IMO

I agree with you Strider that accidents can happen anywhere, anytime but at this stage I can't afford a PLB which is why I will always go with someone. We always let family/friends know exactly where we are going and when we expect get to home. If I get injured at least I could rely on my hiking partner/s to get help. But as I said earlier a PLB is something I do want to invest in.

Yes definitely expensive. I talked my family into buying mine as a combined birthday/Xmas pressie.

That's a good idea. And it may help them feel a bit more relaxed when I/we are out hiking.

MickyB wrote:That's a good idea. And it may help them feel a bit more relaxed when I/we are out hiking.

Yep and that's how I got it over the line - it significantly reduces the risk of me "not coming home". It is a bit sad when you want a present you hope you'll never use though!

Yeah they are expensive but comparable to a GPS mapping setup. I'd buy a PLB and go without a GPS. In fact this is what I have done, but not a financial decision.

From a safety perspective, GPS + paper maps is surely less safe than paper maps + compass (and required skills) + plb in the majority of scenarios.

Total cost is around the same. Seems like a safety versus convenience/fun trade off. Not trying to tell anyone how they should make these decisions, just how I do.

I usually solo walk, so carrying a PLB (actually a SPOT Messenger) is an absolute. Even if you are travelling in a group, the tech is so superior to the manual alternative (the fittest person running several hours to the nearest road) as to be compelling (although price can still be a barrier).

When it comes to nav, I am definitely old school. Map and compass. There is no way that you can plan a route on a 2 inch screen.

But a couple of hours wandering around Mt Twynham in a whiteout convinced me that GPS's definitely do have their uses. I just use the GPS functionality on my phone - I don't have a dedicated GPS unit, or even bother loading offline maps. I still navigate with map and compass, but if I need a precise navigational fix (and can't get it from the terrain), I will pull out the phone. The tech is my backup, not my primary, but even if the backup fails, I still have the skill to do a resection. Has it made me complacent - well, its only the backup, but I don't think I am as careful about checking off the distance travelled as I used to be.

I won't get into the debate (as it has been waged many times before) but I will point out that SPOT is not a PLB and should not treated as such.

We don't have near as good mobile phone coverage in WA to use a phone as a backup. Pretty much as soon as you're out of city limits that's it until the next city or town, which are further apart in general. I have occasionally loaded offline maps on the iphone as a backup map (might as well since I'll have my phone anyway), but not for getting a fix on location. Would definitely use it that way if I could.

Strider wrote:I won't get into the debate (as it has been waged many times before) but I will point out that SPOT is not a PLB and should not treated as such.

You just did

I assume this is aimed at me. I am fully aware of the limitations of the SPOT Messenger and how they compare to PLBs. In fact, not all PLBs are created equal but that's another story. In addition to having the emergency option on the SPOT, I use the tracking function which gives breadcrumbs. Anyone that I have given access to my SPOT page can view these at any time. As I said earlier, I also use the check in/ all OK function. I also leave detailed route plans including likely side trips with at least two trusted people. I also check in with Rangers, Police or even regional visitors centers going off track solo.

My point stands. Map and compass + PLB ( or SPOT) > GPS mapping plus paper map in almost all situations. If a new walker was to ask my advice on whether to buy a PLB (or SPOT) or a GPS I'd tell them to buy a compass, learn how to use it, and buy PLB (or SPOT), always carry it, and save up for a GPS unit if you still want one. But many people don't, so whatever.

Breadcrumb trail is exactly the reason I said should not be treated as a PLB. They are definitely useful, but only when used in the right way.

Another point I'd like to make about how tech has changed the way people go about preparing is that a GPS mapping unit is not a paper map and compass and should not be treated as such, yet more and more I come across people who seem to think they are substitutes. This is one way in which technology has made us safer when walking and yet simultaneously more dangerous as a whole.

By the way, if you can get a GPS signal for mapping you can get a message out on the Spot Satellite GPS messenger...

Strider, you are correct that the SPOT Messenger should be used the right way and I'd urge anyone considering using one to look into the limitations fully. You can in theory use it in the same way by carrying it and just hitting the SOS button if in trouble. But if you don't use breadcrumbs you risk getting into a situation where you might turn it on and hit SOS only to discover you have no signal

Anyone own or rent a Sat phone for longer solo trips (or otherwise)?

Strider wrote:It is a bit sad when you want a present you hope you'll never use though!

It looks cool (or daggy) to have hanging around. That's all that counts!

McWade wrote:From a safety perspective, GPS + paper maps is surely less safe than paper maps + compass (and required skills) + plb in the majority of scenarios.

I'd think user competence in the application of each modality as well as the geographical location also plays a part here. Navigating in a featureless desert or in a heavy growth bush comes to mind.

McWade wrote:By the way, if you can get a GPS signal for mapping you can get a message out on the Spot Satellite GPS messenger...

You know this is a false statement, right? I hope you and all others do too. It's very important to understand the range and limitations of their safety equipments.

GPSGuided wrote:

McWade wrote:From a safety perspective, GPS + paper maps is surely less safe than paper maps + compass (and required skills) + plb in the majority of scenarios.

I'd think user competence in the application of each modality as well as the geographical location also plays a part here. Navigating in a featureless desert or in a heavy growth bush comes to mind.

I said "almost all situations". I also said "paper maps + compass (and required skills)" and "I can see where gps services would be very useful".

Think that covers it.

GPSGuided wrote:

McWade wrote:By the way, if you can get a GPS signal for mapping you can get a message out on the Spot Satellite GPS messenger...

You know this is a false statement, right? I hope you and all others do too. It's very important to understand the range and limitations of their safety equipments.

Okay you're splitting hairs now. We could turn this into a detailed technical discussion but I don't see the point. Maybe in another thread if people wanna go down that path? I am aware of the capabilities and limitations of this device. I've outlined how I go about using the SPOT Satellite GPS Messenger above. If you see somewhere I can improve on that please let me know.

One high profile Adventurer's thought's on GPS mapping units for use in the field:

Why backcountry GPS units are overrated

http://andrewskurka.com/2012/why-backco ... overrated/

Pretty much my view including what he says about where these devices can be very useful though not essential. I can imagine situations where I'd be thanking my lucky stars that I had one, but it is still only imagined till now. If I'm ever in one of those situations I hope I'd had the wisdom to take one along.