Rockclimbing Situations

[mjdalessa]

How do people go about fixing their gear to rope descents, safety lines etc. e.g Mt. Anne?
What gear do you need?

[Azza]

How do people go about fixing their gear to rope descents, safety lines etc. e.g Mt. Anne?
What gear do you need?

Not quite sure I understand what your after....

There are plenty of ways of setting up a safety line, however I wouldn't recommend it unless you know exactly
what your doing as an incorrectly setup rig could easily give you a false sense of security and potentially end up being
more dangerous.

I've never used a safety line for Mt Anne, Federation Pk etc. The weight of a proper climbing rope and
rock gear - basically what you'd need to setup a decent safely line is more than I'm prepared to lug on a bushwalk.

Cheers

Aaron

[prankphonecall]

Are you referring to pack hauling or a safety line for belaying a person?

[mjdalessa]

both

[whiskeylover]

I'm with Aaron, If you don't know how to do this you can't learn it off a website - you need to go out with some experts and learn a lot about ropes, knots, belaying, equipment, lead climbing and appropriate anchor points. I am not a climber and am quite scared of heights so am more likely to use ropes where others might not think it necessary, but I would not attempt to do that without some of my climbing friends around. Having an unsafe rope setup would be more dangerous than not having a rope at all in most cases as you might rely on something that will fail at a crucial point.There is no better teacher than practice and experience with experts. Enjoy learning and testing your limits. Good luck. I'd say break a leg, but last time someone said that to me I did!

[prankphonecall]

I've been climbing for a number of years and seen some pretty dodgey setups. The best way to learn about belaying etc. is to either do a introductory course working up to intermediate or join a cllimbing club (alot of universities etc. have such clubs). Practical hands-on experience (in a safe controlled environment) is they only way to learn properly and safely. Equipment needed to belay can be quite heavy (30-60m rope, harnesses for each member, belay devices, anchoring equipment etc.) and there are a number of different ways to anchor a rope or a belayer which i'm not going to tell you over the net. Best if you seek someone out who can show you.

I remember hiking as a kid (lower primary school) with a rope tied around my waste (bowline i think) and dad wedged behind a tree holding the other end. We never needed it thankfully, not that i doubt dad's ability to hold a small child. Probably not something you'd do with an adult.

As for pack hauling, theres a number of different ways, but in general you pack won't be more than 20kg so most ropes will be able to hold this weight. The main things to consider is length of rope and making sure you attach it to your pack properly.

If your already familiar with belaying then we usually send one person down first, then attach the packs and lower them down to the person and then bring the final person/people down.

[tasadam]

I'm with Aaron, If you don't know how to do this you can't learn it off a website - you need to go out with some experts and learn a lot about ropes, knots, belaying, equipment, lead climbing and appropriate anchor points.

Congrats to those that hold this view. I entirely agree.

If you are talking about doing Mt Anne specifically, I climbed it last year and did not need ropes.
But everyone is different.
Really, there is only a short section of tricky stuff to get to thte peak. An experienced walker with the group should be able to show you the best way up it.
If in doubt, don't. But to be sure of the ascent, perhaps a climbing person with the gear amongst you is always an option.
This gear is usually pretty expensive too.

If you wanted specific info on specific walks, feel free to ask - you may be able to get a better impression of whether you actually need climbing gear based on how people here respond.
Cheers!

[mjdalessa]

In a lot of places people suggest using ropes on anne.
I've had experienced walkers tell me that no ropes are needed at all.

Is the climbing to the top of anne diffucult?
Or or is it just hair raising?

[MJD]

Some people find it uncomfortable because of the drop. The crux is circled. Its 7- 8 feet high; good hand holds; starts on a reasonable but small sized ledge. Once you get past this there is still some exposure to go but you are on very good ledges and rocks.

[Pedro]

This is the bit that may require an underwear change:

Mt Anne Crux

This is the circled area on MJDs pic. One step backwards would give you about two seconds to consider your life. You wouldn't be revisiting Anne. Neither of the people in the pic went any further there, although the young lady under the cairn came back to where I took the picture and climbed the overhanging crack that starts immediately above the beginning of the second arrow in MJDs pic.

The arrow following the circle is this area:

The ledge

This is relatively straight forward, but the wet patch is always there. I imagine that it would ice up nicely in cold weather and it slopes outwards. MJDs pic shows nicely what would happen if you slipped on the wet patch. After this ledge, the rest is easy.

There is an alternative route on the north side of Anne, but it is not well marked. I have heard that it is slightly easier, but can't confirm that.

The only time I've used a rope in the Anne region is for the Notch. The Notch in either direction would be a *&%$#! without a rope to haul packs and most people don't mind the security of a top rope. You can see it here:

http://mchugh.gallery.netspace.net.au/notch

Pedro

[corvus]

Having experienced a fall whilst doing an easy rock climb I am now a complete wuss on simple scrambles Mt Ann would just freak me out now so good luck to young folk who do it (well done) am I envious and as I am over 60 dont think it is on my wish list.
c

[tasadam]

Now I'm not sure whether I did it right when I was there.

But I think so...

When you finish the boulder hopping up the rock scree to the base of the cliffy bit, you look straight up and to the left a bit, and see the cairn that can be seen above the girl in photo "Mt Anne Crux" by Pedro above.
These small images of mine are links to larger files - if you view them in full size and scroll about, you'll see the detail I refer to.

This is the area as taken from above (after the climb) and to the right.

When you view the large file, you will see my pack just to the left of the wet spot.
As I remember it, there were two climby bits. The first was to get me to the shelf directly in front of my pack.
Then over that bit of rock and along to the ascent of the trickier bit.
When I was going up the trickier bit toward the cairn, I got myself wrong-footed, and because I had my day pack on (overnight pack actually, with minimal gear in it), I wasn't able to go up, or down. I had my left foot where my right foot needed to be, and because of the pack I could not rectify. So I took the pack off and handed it to my wife, then climbed down and reassessed.

To the best of my memory, this image reflects ther route I took. Same photo, but with dotted pink lines. Again, click on the image for a bigger pic.


In the larger image, the first circle shows where I left the pack, the second circle shows the trickiest bit of the climb, but that circle is showing a lump of rock I remember relying on a lot to pull myself up.
You come out beside the cairn, you can see that there is a fair bit of wear on the rocks in the area, indicating where the majority of people go.



After the climb, as mentioned the wet bit can indeed be hazardous if icy.
The route ahead is fairly well defined - see the cairn to aim for. The bigger pic shows the cairn in the big gap. Pretty straightforward.


The other side of this cairn looks like this - you can see the track and cairns.


So it is not impossible, but you do need to be confident and sure of yourself. When you get there you'll know. My wife is 5 feet 1 inch, and she went up, so it can't be too bad.
Even if you don't make it to the summit, you will still have a magnificent view...





More on topic - rock-climbing situations. I have recently returned from scaling Thetis from the western / northwest end, as well as some other lumps of rock in that area, not least of which (as far as rock climbing goes) was Achilles Heel.
There is some pretty interesting rock climbig to be done there.
I did not find a marked route, nor did I expect one. I wandered around to the left and found a crevice, began climbing and got at least half way up before it started looking too marginal. So I retreated and continued round further. Found another crevice so up I went again, this time making it to the top. There are a couple of peaks on Achilles Heel, both about the same height (as we noted when we made it to the top). The first peak was the one we climbed, and the second appears to have a cairn on top. No matter, I am happy to call it "done".
When climbing rocks like that, you get the feel for whether you should continue or whether it is too risky.
Although I could have continued further in the first crevice, it didn't feel right, like it was going to be too hard to get down, that risk was starting to outweigh reward.
It's more a feeling - like you just know not to. Perhaps a self-preservation thing.
I spend a fair bit of time looking - picking out a route, looking at what appears possible.

The Chapman notes talking about coming down from Thetis toward Paddy's Nut talks of broken / fallen columns.
Note the size descriptions used.
Here's my interpretation of scales -
Sand
Stone
Rock
Boulder
Column
Mountain

That is, when he says columns, he means some pretty BIG rocks.
Bigger than boulders.

One piece of advice I can strongly recommend when doing walks that require a lot of rock climbing is to take some good rigger or gardening gloves, perhaps leather.
The rocks are very rough and abrasive - great for grip on the boots, but bad for skin on the hands.
My fingers were nearly worn through before I decided to sacrifice my Gore-tex gloves. Expensive, but worth it.
I should have known to take other gloves for rocks.

I do not know whether I would use the gloves going up the trickiest bit on Anne, but if my memory serves me right, I did have gloves on then.
Not good rigger gloves then, either. I should know by now.
But if the gloves are not a good fit and you need to rely on your grip through a tricky section, might pay to stuff them in your pocket for a bit...

Now, since we are talking rock-climbing, I would really like to hear how people go on Federation Peak.
Like from what we've done, ropes or no ropes? Go or not? Will we find it possible or is it a different level again?
My guess is that it will be no worse than anything we have already done, except that the view below the feet will be several hundred metres more than I am used to on the "climbing" we have done...
Any thoughts?

[MJD]

Pedro - Nice pictures, excellent view of the crux. The route up the other side is easier in my opinion. I went up there last week with ILUVSWTAS. It was misty with about 50m visibility so I can't be sure of the exposure. We did pass the packs up two bits near the top but day packs would probably have been ok. It is a bit harder to follow but reasonably well cairned and well worn in the gully that you go up. There were a couple of spots where we weren't entirely sure which way to go but then came across a cairn after making a decision - this may be easier with a clear view when you can often pick out a cairn much further away. Unfortunately going up this way and down the normal route means that I still have no idea of how to get around the summit block. (PS - We also lowered the packs down the wall next to the crux on the normal route.)

Corvus - don't know that calling yourself a wuss is quite fair, and a bit of medicinal whatever probably isn't the right solution, but being over sixty isn't a reason to cross it off the list. Nothing wrong with using a properly set up rope for piece of mind. It's a great summit especially in good weather.

Tasadam - good advice about gloves. These are also handy for scrub bashing .

[MJD]

It's a long time since I've been up Federation but I would say that if you get up Anne then you'll get up Federation.

[Pedro]

Was out at Cape Hauy last week. There is the opportunity of a life time waiting there for anyone willing to trust a rope

Totem Pole

Top of the Totem Pole

[tasadam]

Hey, that's new... Wasn't there when I was.

(link)
Someone out there does indeed rock-climb.

Speaking of rock climbing, when I did Frenchmans Cap in 2005, I met two guys named Gerry Narkowicz and Garn Cooper.
They climbed the face of Frenchmans.
Here's a link to a GIF file - a sequence of 11 photos of them climbing the face, zooming in as you go.

It is a 2.4Mb file so takes a while to load, once it loads it will play at the speed I set it up...

And if that got you excited, check THIS out...

[Taurë-rana]

I don't remember having any trouble on Anne, and I'm only 5' nothing. Adam, Feder isn't difficult climbing from what I remember, just airy, and if you step back you fall a very long way. I think it depends on your ability to handle heights as to whether you need a rope, the mainlander with us complained because we didn't use one. I actually found the gully to be much scarier than the more exposed wall as it was slippery. I do remember being scared then.

[prankphonecall]

[quote="Pedro"]Was out at Cape Hauy last week. There is the opportunity of a life time waiting there for anyone willing to trust a rope

Thats what i'm talking about... i'd say someone will come back for it.

Last time i was out at the totem pole there was a film crew filming a japaneese energy drink commercial. They got choppered in and had a line set up to the mainland for traversing across. We asked, but they didn't let us have a play!

[eggs]

I went on the boat tour in Jan around Cape Huay & Cape Pillar.

The views were tremendous, but the boat operators indicate that the Tyrolean Traverse is now a permanent feature for the rock climbers to use.

The idea is to get to the bottom (by swimming or swinging across) and then climb to the top.
They then use the ropes to get across without having to go back down and up again.

View of Tyrolean Traverse

Brian

[corvus]

G'day all rock climbers after seeing more of your conquests I am now of a bigger WUSS ,the fall was easy landing NOT but I wish I was still doing it with you
c

[prankphonecall]

The fall at the totem pole (if your unlucky enough) is probably one of the softest around... but damn it's cold!

[adventurescape]

Speaking of the Totem pole and tyrolean traverses, this shows/explains in good detail how they do it and another option, slacklining. The pictures are fairly self explanatory. Bring spare undies if you're not good at tightropes and trust those bolted anchors!!! http://danandjo2007.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... -pole.html

[Singe]

All of this makes me wonder exactly who installs these permanent bolts inside National Parks, and whether they seek prior approval from PWS. Is it officially sanctioned, or a case of once they're installed, the damage has already been done so there's no point removing them?

[dee_legg]

Well you're not meant to bolt within NP's but i think thats its so far down on the list of issues for parks that it goes unnoticed. Most of the time the lack of bolts somewhere is more because of an 'agreement' within the climbing community to keep that area natural than something enforced by parks.