Bushwalk Australia

Am I the only one in the world that resents paying fees. Camping fees, Entrance fees etc?????

Access to national parks (supposedly taxpayer owned) should be available to everyone regardless of whether you have money in your pocket or not. The size of the fee is immaterial, it is the principle of charging that I object too..

User pays has it place for some manmade facility provided at cost and I have optioned to accept but the choice should be mine. I have no problem paying for showers, interpretive centre etc(means I can choose not to pay and go without) but I should not be charged to just enter public areas or to see a natural feature.

Condoning such charges in the name of revenue for parks gives an out for governments who should provide for the parks for the community for the social benefits that society reaps by access to natural areas and falls into the hands of the capitalist operators who will end up convincing park authorities to ban access to non-commercial parties or to allow exclusive access to some areas by some some tour operator.

I believe free walking is on a downhill run towards being prohibited unless there is a strong voice against these charges (and they will always increase)

Hob

i Hobby, do they charge park enty fees etc. in Queensland ? Sounds like it. In Tassie we do have park entry fees and a separate fee to walk the OT.
While it does seem like an unnecessary impost, it's probably the only way to fund parks. Our overnments here of either persuasion would rather spend taxpayers dollars on overseas trip or making buildings housing ministers ec. excessively lavish or the many other perks they can dream up.(or a PM)
Inland fisheries is in the same boat.
So we pay fees.
ff

Well I am going to go against the grain and say I don't mind paying park fees as long as they are kept reasonable. For example -think of the cost of maintaining toilets on some of the tracks like the Overland- what if they didn't have them- the place would be a mess It encourages people to do the right thing and the shear pressure of numbers would mean without them you could say goodbye to nice camping areas and clean water. Besides, for the Overland you can always go out of season or do some variation to avoid the actual track fee if you choose. To add to this the cost of track maintenance, rangers etc must be enormous- surely we are still being subsidised.
A 2 year all Tassie Parks pass for $123 is in my opinion a bargain. In NSW it is $335 for all parks....
Cheers
Lizzy

I agree with Lizzy, well said.

I have no problem with fees in principle. However, I do believe that uni students and perhaps some other groups ought to receive a significant discount of parks passes. I am getting a new 12 month pass next week and it is a significant expense for us as it would be for any uni student.

Even with fee's there isn't enough funding to maintain tracks and empty toilets etc.
Just look at the western arthurs situation with the pod toilets overflowing.
I suspect everything but the mainstream tracks would or will be left to degrade now without funding.
What would you resent more? Paying the park fees or a stream of turd floating through the camp site?
Places like Lake Rhona are becoming increasingly popular and desperately in need of a pod toilet.
probably not going to happen. So do we end up with more quota systems being introduced?

Anyway I have no issues for pay parks fees they're quite reasonable here considering the amount of time and enjoyment I get out of walking in Tasmania.
Different case in Vic and NSW I suspect. After going skiing a few times, I found the park entry fee's are a little steep.
Saying that paying > $300 in Tasmania would probably be out of the reach for a lot of people.

I love paying park fees in Tasmania because I beleive it's great value, and the payment is generally put to good use. I would happily pay twice as much or more for a year pass. Compare it with gym fees, as an example!

It pays for the management of our parks! The only gripe I have is that a lot of it seems to get spent on the OLT in lieu of other areas that could do with some work (ie: Lake Rhona is a good example).

But seriously, whinging about paying for services is just being stupid. The parks areas need to be managed, and this costs. If they weren't managed, they'd get trashed.

My hands are tied... well almost...

So some people actually do believe that park fees go back into parks? That 'if you were just to pay a little more' all would be sweet...


.... ......

(No you are not the only one Hob (and you write well))

Nuts wrote:So some people actually do believe that park fees go back into parks?

Yes, there are some idealists out there... I believe that we should be paying fees for the upkeep of our parks, and that money should be being used for that purpose. As for reality... I'm sure a large amount of the takings are siphoned off to line the pockets of top level executives and other pen pushers and bean counters who don't give a *&%$#! about our parks, but there is at lease some evidence of P&W doing various works around the state, staffing areas etc. It's not all just a government scam. OR IS IT?!

No... I think your probably right... which restores my faith more than your previous post ; )
I guess, seeing as though there appears to be almost no accountability, us 'ordinary folk' will likely never know...

I buy my Tassie all parks annual pass and I am happy to do so (as a senior card holder I get a good discount) and I do believe that my fees are being used in the parks,you cannot run field staff without admin in the office , try it in your own workplace
Also $25.00 of my park fees goes to wildcare
corvus

I guess, in principal, I don't mind paying park fees as long as they go back in to management of the park or facilities, but as a Victorian we have very few parks that attract a fee. (yet)

In SA & WA in the past year we have paid their fees and haven't been put off by them at all. My only comment there is that if you're collecting them through an honesty box having a fee of an odd amount isn't that sensible.

WA was $13/day and SA $11/day from memory. I don't carry loose change so anything thats not a multiple of a $5 note is going to see me short changing the envelope

John R

When you live in Tamania then our parks fees are probably comparatively good vaue. Mine comes in the mail and is paid online every two years for $108 of which $20 goes to Wildcare. This allows me to take a carload to any National park in Tas. Guess it's just something you pay as part and parcel of going bush. I also pay a trout licence
at $64 for approx.9 months so parks pass is well cheaper.

ff

Hobby wrote:Am I the only one in the world that resents paying fees. Camping fees, Entrance fees etc?????

Access to national parks (supposedly taxpayer owned) should be available to everyone regardless of whether you have money in your pocket or not. The size of the fee is immaterial, it is the principle of charging that I object too..

User pays has it place for some manmade facility provided at cost and I have optioned to accept but the choice should be mine. I have no problem paying for showers, interpretive centre etc(means I can choose not to pay and go without) but I should not be charged to just enter public areas or to see a natural feature.

Condoning such charges in the name of revenue for parks gives an out for governments who should provide for the parks for the community for the social benefits that society reaps by access to natural areas and falls into the hands of the capitalist operators who will end up convincing park authorities to ban access to non-commercial parties or to allow exclusive access to some areas by some some tour operator.

I believe free walking is on a downhill run towards being prohibited unless there is a strong voice against these charges (and they will always increase)

Hob

Cobber if you dont like paying fees dont walk in managed areas it is a no brainer really, do you give up your free time to help maintain our parks ? I have done so when required and would again if it was asked
corvus

pay up, shut up

There once was a time when your taxes paid for parks maintenance, it wasnt that long ago
But they ended up being diverted to 'more important' projects.. policing, wars etc.
You can see what a huge difference the fee structure has made
Maintained tracks, emptied toilets everywhere....
I know plenty of crew who don't pay, wont pay
Rarely get caught, even then just ignore the Parks staff and keep walking
But it is kind of reactionary
We pay, partly cause of a hope it will bring positive change, partly to avoid conflict
Would like to see an accountability breakdown and not just a flashy brochure some day
It is worth noting that the park fee is a "statute" (a contract) and not law
Good luck with your choice

DaznKez

I don't resent paying the fees. I resent the Gov't not giving said fees to Parks to appropriate as the funds should be.

A bit of light reading for you, in other topics -
PWS park fees to increase
Track maintenance parks fees
And another topic where I had a rant on this as I said then,

I wonder whether there is any check done to see that all funds raised by parks passes etc is actually put into parks?

Parks funding is a disgrace. Talking to various people within Parks about it, some of the things I hear is most concerning.
Taking one example, the well known dunny at Melaleuca, Parks have had a proposal submitted to the Gov't appropriations to get 3 new fully closed loop systems installed - one to replace the pit toilet at the huts, one to replace the toilet at the airstrip, and one for Claytons Corner on the harbour, to replace the illegal pit toilet there.
The plan was so that all 3 would allow the systems to cope with current and planned visitor numbers.
Yet the powers that make the decision in funding decide to only install one, at Melaleuca huts. The hardware is there, and I believe construction begins this year, the existing one needs to be emptied and the contents removed. Pity that job...
To the point, the system is designed so the anticipated load could be met with the original plan (3 systems), but the funds have only been provided for 1. So now there's a real chance this unit will be overloaded.
I can see the govt's thinking, most visitors to the area will go to Melaleuca huts and this infamous smelly pit that has been there since "the split", will be a thing of the past and a shiny new dunny will be installed, like "wow haven't the gov't done SOOO well installing this!". But imagine the frustration of Parks staff who put these proposals together / plan the system on 3 but only get 1, knowing that 1 will not cope with demand.

Imagine walking the Overland track and having some old wire pierce the sole of your boot and into your foot? It has happened.
Sure, OLT gets more attention than some others, for good reason. So some of these problems are getting sorted, although slowly. Very slowly. Read this post.

The Western Arthurs pod issue has been covered.

Parks have (this summer) been working on some boardwalk on the South Coast track, including raising the boards that have been sinking on the Louisa Plains area.
Frenchmans Cap carpark is now huge, and the track is planned for a partial re-route funded in part by Parks.
I'd happily quote some more, but I see this page hasn't been updated in a couple of years. I think it's time we asked why.

Parks fees - pay them. Do your bit to help Parks. Even if your money goes to state coffers instead of Parks, at least you will be another statistic - another person registered as a parks user. Fill out the log books, as often as you go there - your numbers may help allow Parks build a case for more funding from the Gov't.
And if you have a problem with Parks funding, take it up with the Gov't. Ask them why they so under-fund Parks.

Nuts wrote:So some people actually do believe that park fees go back into parks? That 'if you were just to pay a little more' all would be sweet...

Actually I naively forgot about that one.
I was having a similar conversation with work colleagues the other day.
All the state revenue goes into a big bucket from which its doled out.
So yea.. parks revenue doesn't necessarily go back into parks.

When you pay for a parks pass in Tasmania, if you tick the Wildcare box $25 of the fee goes to that organisation. Two volunteer groups I am involved in (Wellington Park and Mt Field) regularly make use of some of that money to help improve the parks for everyone.

tasadam wrote:I'd happily quote some more, but I see this page hasn't been updated in a couple of years. I think it's time we asked why.

Parks fees - pay them. Do your bit to help Parks. Even if your money goes to state coffers instead of Parks, at least you will be another statistic - another person registered as a parks user. Fill out the log books, as often as you go there - your numbers may help allow Parks build a case for more funding from the Gov't.
And if you have a problem with Parks funding, take it up with the Gov't. Ask them why they so under-fund Parks.

Not only has it not been updated, but what's there loses credibility with the following reference:
"The Nut State Reserve
Operations and maintenance
Day visitor facilities maintenance Wineglass Bay Track"

No wonder they had to stop access to the top of the Nut a while ago!

As for the original topic, I always felt it was misguided and inhospitable to charge our visitors fees for visiting places which are a major reason for many of them to visit the state. Objected strongly to paying fees to visit National Parks in Western Aust years ago (especially as the CALM staff back then were far less pleasant to deal with than ours - hope they've improved!) but paid for the obvious reasons. Now I just agree with Adam's suggestions; resigned to paying up and at least becoming another statistic in support of the parks.

I'm happy to pay a fee. Although I do wish it would stay in the PWS. We seem to keep cutting taxes to get votes, only to then introduce fees to cover the shortfall!

It is strange though that you can come to Tassie and free of charge drive from Cradle Mountain to Lake St. Clair on a high quality sealed road that is worth hundreds of millions of dollars, while it costs $190 to walk to the same place on a rough, largely dirt foot track.

In the "good" old days traffic volumes were low and only locals visited areas so much work was done on an informal "volunteer" bases and nothing was too wrong with that model but nowadays we have super highways and traffic volumes of people that erode tracks and exceed nature's ability to dispose of waste so unless we stop people visiting we are trapped into an increasing spiral of infrastructure that makes it more pleasant so more people come, etc, etc. This cost money so fees are a way of getting this but of course we have a thing called consolidated revenue where fee increases despite political and more importantly bureaucratic promises do not go where the fee payer wants.

Though unpopular with some I do believe that we need a EU fee system. There if a local you pay a lower fee than a EU citizen with people like me paying much more. Yes it is milk the tourists but they started the war so lets return the favour. I.e. for a Tassie person one lower fee, more for an Australian Citizen, with Overseas visitor paying much more. Lets face it, much of the damage is been done by the "once in life time walker" than locals.

One thing I am curious of is what happens with "tourist" visiting areas such as Frenchmans Cap as part of guided tours. Does the vehicle the tour company use cover the occupants (as what happens with private cars) our does each member of the group have to pay the generic parks pass fee? I would be curious on this point as well as tourist travelling together?

Cheers Brett

PS, not too sure if I like my fees going to study tours and over the top infrastructure but put a pot of money in front of a true bureaucrat there is not much you can do but watch it disappear and hope that some gets to the sharp end.

tasadam wrote:<SNIP>
Taking one example, the well known dunny at Melaleuca, Parks have had a proposal submitted to the Gov't appropriations to get 3 new fully closed loop systems installed - one to replace the pit toilet at the huts, one to replace the toilet at the airstrip, and one for Claytons Corner on the harbour, to replace the illegal pit toilet there.
The plan was so that all 3 would allow the systems to cope with current and planned visitor numbers.
Yet the powers that make the decision in funding decide to only install one, at Melaleuca huts. The hardware is there, and I believe construction begins this year, the existing one needs to be emptied and the contents removed. Pity that job...
<SNIP>
Do your bit to help Parks. <SNIP>.

Here's your chance
(Extract from email broadcast from "Friends of Melaleuca" WIldcare Group President, Janet Fenton)

Friends of Melaleuca is calling for expressions of interest in 2 working bees:

1.  PWS Toilet:
A small (fit) team led by Craig Saunders to build toilet at the walkers' huts, Feb and March 2010. See details below, expressions of interest to Craig.

2. General work:
Scrape off lichen and paint roof of CK Memorial hut; paint ceiling of New hut; build fence around Willsons' mine plant; measure and estimate materials for future work, eg 1935 miners' camp in Kings' garden; sundry small jobs.
Skills required: Ability to work on a high ladder; building skills for measuring/estimating materials; general practical skills; remote area living experience.
Time frame: Early March 2010, tentative dates between 2 - 11 March, possibly coinciding with Craig's shift 3 (see below). Note, this time frame encompasses the March long weekend.
Some jobs weather dependent.
I will be at Melaleuca until late January so apologies that I won't be replying to emails before then.
Expressions of interest for working bee 2. to Janet Fenton, <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
or Pip Gowan <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected].

regards
Janet

Pip Gowen
Regional Volunteer Facilitator (south)
Parks and Wildlife Service
22 Main Road
Huonville
TAS 7109
Ph: (03) 6264 8463
M: 0427648463
Fax: (03) 6264 8473
Email: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
Web: <http://www.parks.tas.gov.au>www.parks.tas.gov.au

Toilet Building
Craig has asked that anyone interested contact him on:

email: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
Ph: (PWS Office) - message mostly
Ph: (h) 6266 3148
Mobile: 0429 868 833


I can supply the following (tentative) information concerning prospective volunteers for the Melaleuca toilet building work.

Assumptions

The site will be cleared to bare ground prior to start (by Fire Crew in Dec 09?)
Building work to commence 1 Feb 09 or close to that date, not before
Building works to take approx 3 x 10 day shifts, called early February, late February and early March

Volunteer Staff requirements
I would prefer 1-3 volunteers on site at any time. One if they are well skilled, 3 if lower skill level.  There is provision for extra volunteers (to maybe 4 for the first shift, see below)

Volunteers should
preferably commit for a full 10 day shift
Skills should include general practical skills, the more the better (see work schedule below)
Remote area living experience essential, even though Melaleuca has good facilities.
A high level of general fitness is required.

Time frame (approximate)
Shift 1 (early Feb) 2-11 February 2010
Shift 2 (late Feb) 16-25 February 2010
Shift 3 (early Mar) 2-11 March 2010

Work Schedule
Shift 1: Foundation works, hole digging, moving materials, concreting.
Hard physical work. Could probably use 3 - 5 volunteers on this shift.
Shift 2: General Building works, less physical, 1 -3  volunteers
Shift 3: general building works, less physical, 1 -3 volunteers


Craig Saunders
Treasurer, Wildcare
(Office Hosted by Parks and Wildlife Service)
22 Main Street
Huonville Tasmania 7109
Office: (03) 6264 8464
Fax: (03) 6264 8473
Home: (03) 6266 3148
Mobile: 0429 868 833
http://www.wildcaretas.org.au