Bushwalk Australia

I often see posted here queries about relative heights of this or that peak. And wondering if they were actually on the highest one.
Then the GPS gets into play and one is still in doubt.
I'm not sure how to read some posters but one is often left with the feeling its a serious matter.

These devices http://www.prospectors.com.au/p-3704-suunto-pm-5360-pc-clinometer.aspx are fantastic if you want to know grades or whether on the right bump and can claim to 'been there, tick that one off'.

If you are serious about needing to ensure you are at the highest peak then a Clino is far more useful and accurate for that purpose.
Obviously one needs to be able to see and standing on a misty peak then that won't always come into it.
But equally if its misty then would you know if there is another slightly higher knob there anyway?

Recreational grade GPS are not accurate to determine heights and the old (surveying) rule of thumb of 2 times horizontal accuracy approx. = the vertical accuracy is a starting point. Expect much worse.
I'm not knocking recreational GPS - they have a vital part in todays society but more so in horizontal than vertical.

Those little Clino's are just so light and easy to use and if you are serious about ensuring you're at the top then they are indispensable.

Interesting. *&%$#! expensive though!!!!

My GPS is pretty accurate, it usually reads about 8mtrs over.

I use the wiki on this site as a great tool. Put the GPS coordinate in the night before I go for a wander and bingo. The furthest out my GPS has been is 6metres. If the high points in question were closer than that I'd just have to go up both!

Then again a free app for your iPhone or Android device would probably suffice as most have built in inclination sensors. There is a particularly good theodolite app for iOS that uses the camera http://itunes.apple.com/au/app/theodolite-pro/id339393884?mt=8 I just wish they did an Android version.

Thanks taswegian and sthughes, certainly GPS are not particularly accurate with elevation. As ILUVSWTAS similarly experienced, I seem to get within about 5m accuracy in elevation, but I know that lacks a level of accuracy so I don't rely on it. I often use Doogs suggestion, using the official co-ords from a government topo database (such as national Geoscience Australia - Gazetteer of Australia but based on 1:250 000 maps or local - for me - South Australian State Gazetteer - PlaceNames Online based on 1:50 000 maps), but they are only accurate to about maybe 10-50m (also depending on the GPS accuracy). I still have to estimate from the GPS Go To function which of the two peaks is the correct one, sounds easy but last time got it wrong (it was on a less detailed 1:250 000 map), only realising a few metres from the top of the false one. In such a situation a clinometer would be useful, could save some unnecessary climbing (more importantly some time and energy). Top work, thanks!

taswegian, how difficult have you found using the clinometer?

The 'clino' is a piece of cake to use.
if you can use a compas then you can use a clinometer. (Obviously in vertical, not horizontal plane )

If you do as Doogs does and check LIST (Tasmania) and get coords from there then that is far more accurate than relying on GPS heights.
I doubt anyone would be foolish enough to use the horizontal coords and 'Go To' feature of the GPS and wonder why one suddenly dropped off the face of the mountain. Saying the obvious I know, but...
It is important to look at the accuracy stated of the maps but things are relative, so heights would all be relative to one another.

Don't ever be fooled by absolute accurcay of GPS coordinates. I've used survey accuracy GPS and found an elevation spike of 50 metres in just a few metres. Only happened once but it happened.

taswegian wrote:The 'clino' is a piece of cake to use.
if you can use a compas then you can use a clinometer.

Excellent!

taswegian wrote:I doubt anyone would be foolish enough to use the horizontal coords and 'Go To' feature of the GPS and wonder why one suddenly dropped off the face of the mountain. Saying the obvious I know, but...

Yes ha ha. I meant when I could see two close peaks and determining which to climb, rather than following it's direct suggestion. Presumably people don't get into quite the same mess with hiking GPS as some of the stories we've heard of in-car GPS (or maybe they do.)

taswegian wrote:Don't ever be fooled by absolute accurcay of GPS coordinates

Thanks. I agree, there are so many variables with satellite positioning and so on. A GPS gives us the sense that it is an extremely accurate thing, it can be an illusion which we kid ourselves with.

don't forget that some gps units have a barometer which can help as well or perhaps just add to the confusion

doogs wrote:I use the wiki on this site as a great tool. Put the GPS coordinate in the night before I go for a wander and bingo. The furthest out my GPS has been is 6metres. If the high points in question were closer than that I'd just have to go up both!

That's good to know. If you do get to one of these points and the wiki is wildly inaccurate please let someone know so it can be fixed. ....unless of course MJD is there with you.

peak baggers heights

i think ILUVSWTAS is about 5'10"
the others are usually between 5' and about 7' tall i guess

Liamy77 wrote:peak baggers heights

i think ILUVSWTAS is about 5'10"
the others are usually between 5' and about 7' tall i guess

Hahaha Probably the funniest thing i've heard you say on here....

MJD wrote:don't forget that some gps units have a barometer which can help as well or perhaps just add to the confusion

I guess it depends on whether or not you've calibrated it in the first place??

I really meant comparing two spots that looked about the same height. In ideal circumstances, you know the nice warm and sunny weather that we always walk in, the barometric pressure is unlikely to change unless you change altitude and therefore you can see which point has the lower barometric pressure and that is the higher point. See I told you it would just add to the confusion.

As to the wiki being accurate: that will be right for the peaks that our group have taken a GPS to the summit (and averaged the waypoint) barring any stupid typing errors. The good news is that we've done about 300 of them. The others are estimated from various mapping applications used in conjuntion with theList. Most of the glaring errors have probably been picked up except of course the one that you are relying on to be exact. There is still a bit of confusion around some of the peaks in the Spires (hint hint gang, when are we going there?). Still if you find, or think you have found an error, then please let me know or post a message on the wiki.

I also have an Excel Spreadsheet of this information that people are welcome to. v2 is just about finished .

MJD wrote:There is still a bit of confusion around some of the peaks in the Spires (hint hint gang, when are we going there?). Still if you find, or think you have found an error, then please let me know or post a message on the wiki..

POW's end of 2012 will be next years big trip for me Martin, as I assume you'd happily agree to...
Spires et. al. end of 2013?
White Monoliths end 2014?
Propsting end of 2015?
Sounds like a long wait but annual leave doesn't allow more than 1 No. 10+ day trip per year for me

MJD wrote:
As to the wiki being accurate: that will be right for the peaks that our group have taken a GPS to the summit (and averaged the waypoint) barring any stupid typing errors. The good news is that we've done about 300 .

Do you have alist.of the peaks that haven't been checked? Just on the off chance myself or someone else visits one of these peaks.

I'll send you a copy of the spreadsheet later. The latest version has a column showing which ones have been checked. All help is appreciated

MJD wrote:I really meant comparing two spots that looked about the same height. In ideal circumstances, you know the nice warm and sunny weather that we always walk in, the barometric pressure is unlikely to change unless you change altitude and therefore you can see which point has the lower barometric pressure and that is the higher point. See I told you it would just add to the confusion..

No,not at all confusing; I've done that a fair bit when I haven't been certain of the highest point.

This ap is rather ingenious http://hunter.pairsite.com/theodolite/
My daughter just installed the freebie on her Iphone for look see.

It has bearings, slopes etc and may be a rather rough help in finding that elusive high spot