Glued tarp weighs only 178 grams

Discussion about making bushwalking-related equipment.

Glued tarp weighs only 178 grams

Postby BarryK » Sat 05 Jun, 2021 10:33 pm

Here is my how-to page:

https://bkhome.org/light/treehugger-1p- ... -178g.html

It is "mark 1" and after using it for awhile, will identify where needs improving, and will probably construct a "mark 2".

Thinking ahead to that possible mark-2, I have ordered some 20D silnylon. I built mark-1 with 10D silnylon, which is 31 gsm (grams per square metre), however the 20D is only 36 gsm, not much more. So reckon the little bit of extra weight will be worthwhile, as the tarp will be stronger.

Rough calculation, the 20D will add 21g to the tarp, so total weigh will be pushing 200g.

That 10D fabric seems plenty strong enough though.
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Re: Glued tarp weighs only 178 grams

Postby Lamont » Sun 06 Jun, 2021 7:55 am

Onya Bazza!
Looks good.
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Re: Glued tarp weighs only 178 grams

Postby BarryK » Sun 06 Jun, 2021 10:23 am

If you have some silnylon, and wondering about its "peel strength" when bonded with silicone adhesive, telemarketim would like samples for testing, so that he can build up a comparison table:

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=35134

You would need to know its specs and where you got it from. Ideally, would be good to know what factory it was manufactured.
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Re: Glued tarp weighs only 178 grams

Postby crollsurf » Sun 06 Jun, 2021 12:08 pm

That's good! Being a Protrail fanboy I like the design as well. I bought some Xenon Sil 1.1 for a poncho and at 37g/m I've been impressed with it's strength and waterproof qualities.
Not saying it's better than other 20D's but worth considering if you have to buy some material https://www.tiergear.com.au/shop/diy-supplies/fabric/xenon-sil-1-1-per-metre
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Re: Glued tarp weighs only 178 grams

Postby telemarktim » Sun 06 Jun, 2021 12:50 pm

Hi BarryK, What a great detailed series of posts on your project. I have only dreamed of making a glued silnylon tent, but you have done it! Congratulations. May I say that it is a 'bold move' (from Yes Minister) to first try with the sub-optimal glueing silnylon.

Thanks for your mention of my effort to determine silicone rubber glueing properties of tent fabrics (and anything else for MYOG).

Regarding sewing these slippery stretchy tent fabrics. You are probably discovering that, after the glueing, the sewing is relatively easy. I use the big and cheap 300g tubes of silicone, so waste is of no consequence. Consequently, I quickly glue excessively and later squeeze out the excess slowly and steadily. The curing slows once the glue is covered by fabric (as you indicate in your other post). This means that you can easily get 100% cover. The squeezed out excess can be quickly wiped off with turps and a cloth or paper. Spreading the glue around on top and bottom outside surfaces seems to make it easy to sew with a sewing machine.

Regarding tie-outs, I think you could have used a cut ribbon of silnylon fabric that can be rolled and glued and or sewn into a strong tie-out that can be 4, 6 or even 8 layers thick. These can be super light and strong. I have successfully used these on all my tents. They are infinitely strong if there are enough fibres equally sharing the load.

The sockets for the poles can also be made of silnylon tubes (glued or sewn) and glued and or sewn to the ridgeline. An example is shown on the legs of my camp stool in the photo below. Please excuse my crappy sewerist sewing. Ugly, but it works.

Image

Lastly, do you have a photo of how you arrange the 'tree hugger backrest' with this tent. I am missing something?
Thanks again for sharing your experiments. Tim
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Re: Glued tarp weighs only 178 grams

Postby Lamont » Sun 06 Jun, 2021 3:47 pm

BarryK wrote:If you have some silnylon, and wondering about its "peel strength" when bonded with silicone adhesive

I'll be sewing for strength and just 'seam sealing', but not in Silnylon. Anyway I have some clothes on the brain at the moment with the arrival of some very nice fabric.
No glueing going on there :D :wink:


Look forward to following your blog, Baz.
Last edited by Lamont on Sun 06 Jun, 2021 4:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Glued tarp weighs only 178 grams

Postby telemarktim » Sun 06 Jun, 2021 3:58 pm

Lamont wrote:
BarryK wrote:If you have some silnylon, and wondering about its "peel strength" when bonded with silicone adhesive

I'll be sewing for strength and just 'seam sealing', but not in Silnylon. Anyway I have some clothes on the brain at the moment with the arrival of some very nice fabric.
No glueing going on there :D :wink:


Lamont, Where is your spirit of adventure? You could start a new fashion. Tim
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Re: Glued tarp weighs only 178 grams

Postby Lamont » Sun 06 Jun, 2021 4:18 pm

:D
Last edited by Lamont on Sun 06 Jun, 2021 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Glued tarp weighs only 178 grams

Postby Lamont » Sun 06 Jun, 2021 4:28 pm

telemarktim wrote:
Lamont wrote:
BarryK wrote:If you have some silnylon, and wondering about its "peel strength" when bonded with silicone adhesive

I'll be sewing for strength and just 'seam sealing', but not in Silnylon. Anyway I have some clothes on the brain at the moment with the arrival of some very nice fabric.
No glueing going on there :D :wink:


Lamont, Where is your spirit of adventure? You could start a new fashion. Tim


Ha ha. Ooooh yeah! :lol:

This stuff is not seeing any glue Tim, just the soft and delicate caresses of my sewing machine. :lol:
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Re: Glued tarp weighs only 178 grams

Postby BarryK » Sun 06 Jun, 2021 9:54 pm

telemarktim wrote:Hi BarryK, What a great detailed series of posts on your project. I have only dreamed of making a glued silnylon tent, but you have done it! Congratulations. May I say that it is a 'bold move' (from Yes Minister) to first try with the sub-optimal glueing silnylon.


Ha ha, I bought 7 metres of it, had to use it. Reckon it will be OK (fingers crossed).

Lastly, do you have a photo of how you arrange the 'tree hugger backrest' with this tent. I am missing something?
Thanks again for sharing your experiments. Tim


I haven't done that part yet. So far only "stage 1", a basic tarp. Next will start adding the bells and whistles. The rest of the design is still in my head.

After erecting the stage-1 tarp in my lounge room and eye-balling it, I realised that it would be better with a catenary cut on the ridgeline. Making that mod and will update the instructions soon.
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Re: Glued tarp weighs only 178 grams

Postby BarryK » Tue 08 Jun, 2021 10:21 pm

telemarktim wrote:I use the big and cheap 300g tubes of silicone, so waste is of no consequence. Consequently, I quickly glue excessively and later squeeze out the excess slowly and steadily. The curing slows once the glue is covered by fabric (as you indicate in your other post). This means that you can easily get 100% cover. The squeezed out excess can be quickly wiped off with turps and a cloth or paper. Spreading the glue around on top and bottom outside surfaces seems to make it easy to sew with a sewing machine.


Tim,
Today I bought one of those 150g mini-tubes and a dispenser gun, from Bunnings:

https://www.bunnings.com.au/monarch-min ... n_p1662108

I am re-doing the ridgeline with a catenary, and wondered if the shorter 150g dispenser might be easier to handle than the 300g.

Yes, quite happy. One thing I noticed, soon as I took fingers off the lever, the flow stopped. With the big dispenser, the flow would keep going a bit, unless I pressed the pressure-release lever. But didn't have to do that, which was nice, gave me very precise control over the dispensing.
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Re: Glued tarp weighs only 178 grams

Postby telemarktim » Wed 09 Jun, 2021 1:43 pm

Hi Barry,
I have never used the smaller ones. I only use the 300g ones. It is nice to hear that you are not having this problem with the shorter tubes. It is not immediately obvious to me why this would be so. Putting my physicist's hat on, I guess that halving the length of the 'cartridge cradle' leaves it very much less prone to flexing while the trigger is being pulled and leaves negligible flex-back to continue the flow. I can feel that flexing when using the big dispenser. I never use the large formal 'plunger gun' for the reasons you describe.

Instead, I stand the tube on the handle of a kitchen broom and pull the tube downwards when I want more silicone. I Don't get any unwanted flow. I actually get a tiny reverse flow, that is no problem. My method is not so good for long tent seams, It sounds as though you are onto a winner with the stubby dispenser. I will put the idea in my Bowerbird brain for when I try a 100% glued tent!

Did you get an acetic cure silicone rubber in a stubby tube? I would be interested if you could share the product link?

An afterthought, maybe too late. Do you prime the fabric with thinned rubber before the formal glueing? I do. I don't know if it improves the bond strength but in my experience, it seems to make the subsequent spreading of the thick rubber easier soon afterwards. Maybe we should do the glueing with thinned rubber so that we have more 'working time' to get everything just right?

I hope my brain dump makes a little sense.
Thanks for continued sharing of your ideas
Tim
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Re: Glued tarp weighs only 178 grams

Postby BarryK » Wed 09 Jun, 2021 6:13 pm

telemarktim wrote:Did you get an acetic cure silicone rubber in a stubby tube? I would be interested if you could share the product link?

An afterthought, maybe too late. Do you prime the fabric with thinned rubber before the formal glueing? I do. I don't know if it improves the bond strength but in my experience, it seems to make the subsequent spreading of the thick rubber easier soon afterwards. Maybe we should do the glueing with thinned rubber so that we have more 'working time' to get everything just right?


Bunnings only has the Monarch brand mini tubes and dispenser guns. That seems to be the only brand selling the mini tubes in Australia.
Monarch sell two types of silicone, for kitchen/bathroom, and for roof/gutters, and both are neutral cure.

I used the kitchen/bathroom silicone:

https://www.bunnings.com.au/monarch-150 ... e_p1662110

Monarch site:

https://monarchpainting.com.au/collection/sealants/

I don't do any kind of surface priming. I vaguely recall reading someone painting the surfaces with a cleaning agent, maybe alcohol, to remove finger marks etc.

I just dispense a bead of silicone, straight from the tube, then run finger down to spread it, then join the two pieces. Hope to get it pretty much right first go. I have had the experience in the past, where have tried to fiddle around with it after making the initial join, and it can become a mess. So I understand why you prime the surfaces beforehand!

However, I am attempting to get it setup such that the two pieces can just "fall together" and be just right. I have just done the catenary curve on the tarp, and used pins, and it worked really well. Will update the tarp instructions soon.
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