Bushwalk Australia

Been away for a bit, work....sigh.

Spotted the new sub title in the Gear section a little while ago, and while I definitely agree with the basic philosophy, it doesn't seem to generate the level of interest it used to. IMHO. Been browsing thru lots of sites, here and abroad, and the amount of chat sems to have levelled off a bit. I'm thinking maybe people have given it a fairly serious crack and then maybe weight losses have been "regained" as people chase there own specific comfort level when it comes to hiking.

Apart from cost of course there seems to be a little more effort involved when going light, ie looking after what can be fragile gear, or more complicated shelter/sleep setups and so on. I''ve just been house painting, so for a laugh I made a little tarp thingy out of a impossibly light yet strong painters drop sheet [ glorified gladwrap ] It must weigh about 100 grams, and it works but it wouldn't last 2 nights in the real world.

Anybody else thinking, like me, that they are prepared to go so far until the cost/hassle ratio gets a bit of a chore?

I think you may have heard less chat because a lot ultralight techniques and gear have become more or less accepted as standard.

IMO there is little sacrifice in going lighter with tent, pack and sleep system, other than that you have to replace older gear. But if you buy from cottage manufacturers you get lighter equipment which is not that much more fragile for a lot less than you'd pay for a big brand item.

Im not sure why you figure a UL shelter is slower to put up, i guess it depends on the type. As for the rest of a sleep system its just the same.
You are probably right about adding weight back in though. I slashed my weight right down low, now a few extra items added in make me feel super spoiled in the bush.
I think the process is worth it just to see what you "don't" need. Then add in some comforts.
My load is still more than half of what it was but IMO I now have a better setup with plenty of room for bad weather etc.

I guess if you do it all wrong UL is dangerous. I know the main optinion is certainly that.
That hasn't been anything like my experience though. I love the low weight and high km days.

UL is fantastic for track walks non alpine (I've done Alpine and been fine though in bad weather UL). Offtrack is a different game. But most of a UL system can be used, depends on the terrain and scrub type etc.

forest wrote:I slashed my weight right down low, now a few extra items added in make me feel super spoiled in the bush.
I think the process is worth it just to see what you "don't" need. Then add in some comforts.
My load is still more than half of what it was but IMO I now have a better setup with plenty of room for bad weather etc.

This is a great point, and probably sums up what I personally get out of lightening my gear. You figure out what you NEED to safely do your trip and then you decide what else you want to bring for extra comfort. In my case it's a comfy pillow, extra warm jacket, heavier cooking system and a very burly pack. Each of these items could be substituted for a much lighter alternative but the ease and comfort make the extra weight worthwhile for me.

Other things like tent, sleeping system, etc. I find that there are very lightweight options out there which do not compromise much on comfort or safety so that I don't consider using them to be any sacrifice.

perhaps the level of online ultralight chat has levelled off because theres more of them around now who get to talk to each other offline instead and the level of knowledge has come up nd they dont need to get online to gain knowledge as much as they used to..
theres still a lot of ultralight blogging going on on the cloud....
i think theres still a fair movement of them out there and you'll find mainstream gear brands are making more ultralight gear than ever now, they won't be doing that without having done market research first. so there must be more money to be made from ultralight gear...

who knows how much lighter things will go with materials, you've got synthetic spider thread starting to be produced in increasing volume...

http://www.gizmag.com/spiber-synthetic-silk/28267/

It's probably levelled off on here as each time someone mentions saving weight for walking in SE Qld they are a bused as moronic for not going out with equipment suitable for SW Tassie in winter.

Hmmm, maybe I should have worded it a little better!

I'm certainly not anti ultralight at all, just maybe I'm thinking about the law of diminishing return? I'm going for a stroll in the scrub tonight, and looking at a selection of cooking options in front of me [ metho stove/boil water guy ]. Trail Designs/Evernew bit's and pieces, I'm thinking about how I can I really go lighter and keep all the good traits going [ Light/strong/reliable/works ] Not sure I can.

As for tents for example, a mate was showing off a Tarptent [ Contrail?]. Now I like this little device [ very impressive actually ] , but he was fretting over using it because he has already had to repair it a couple of times because he leaned on it a bit and seams gave way. Certainly no harder to set up but fragile, yes. Still thinking of buying a Tarptent anyway!
Maybe I should have just said if I pay a premium price for something I expect to enjoy superior performance without having to be paranoid about life expectancy.

I think many people who embrace ultralight change their ideas about gear care, and consciously take better care with what they have. It's often easier to be careful with 8kg's of pack than with 18!

Davidf61 wrote:Hmmm, maybe I should have worded it a little better!

I'm certainly not anti ultralight at all, just maybe I'm thinking about the law of diminishing return? I'm going for a stroll in the scrub tonight, and looking at a selection of cooking options in front of me [ metho stove/boil water guy ]. Trail Designs/Evernew bit's and pieces, I'm thinking about how I can I really go lighter and keep all the good traits going [ Light/strong/reliable/works ] Not sure I can.

As for tents for example, a mate was showing off a Tarptent [ Contrail?]. Now I like this little device [ very impressive actually ] , but he was fretting over using it because he has already had to repair it a couple of times because he leaned on it a bit and seams gave way. Certainly no harder to set up but fragile, yes. Still thinking of buying a Tarptent anyway!
Maybe I should have just said if I pay a premium price for something I expect to enjoy superior performance without having to be paranoid about life expectancy.

well gear isnt meant to be bought to be left doing nothing, its going to wear out eventually and incur some damage.... what do people expect when they buy lightweight gear? indestructibility?

Indestructability? No, but if you push a rucksack up against the side of a tent [tarptent] and the seam gives away between mesh and tub, is that quality control or fragility?

I don't think Tarptents are too exxy actually, and I'm not having a go at one brand in particular, but it is still unacceptable.

wayno wrote:

Davidf61 wrote:Hmmm, maybe I should have worded it a little better!

I'm certainly not anti ultralight at all, just maybe I'm thinking about the law of diminishing return? I'm going for a stroll in the scrub tonight, and looking at a selection of cooking options in front of me [ metho stove/boil water guy ]. Trail Designs/Evernew bit's and pieces, I'm thinking about how I can I really go lighter and keep all the good traits going [ Light/strong/reliable/works ] Not sure I can.

As for tents for example, a mate was showing off a Tarptent [ Contrail?]. Now I like this little device [ very impressive actually ] , but he was fretting over using it because he has already had to repair it a couple of times because he leaned on it a bit and seams gave way. Certainly no harder to set up but fragile, yes. Still thinking of buying a Tarptent anyway!
Maybe I should have just said if I pay a premium price for something I expect to enjoy superior performance without having to be paranoid about life expectancy.

well gear isnt meant to be bought to be left doing nothing, its going to wear out eventually and incur some damage.... what do people expect when they buy lightweight gear? indestructibility?

You've summed it up well here Wayno. Want bulletproof gear, buy bulletproof gear. Don't need it, then might as well save weight where you can.

says me who wore my ultralight rainshell through gorse , effectively making it a pin cushion....

My hubby is only allowed to take the UL gear when I come along too.......I baby the stuff!
When he goes out alone somehow he manages to get holes in things, rip stuff, lose knobs etc
He says it's a skill

he sounds very skilled!

A lot of UL bushwalkers are not bothered to post on this forum for the back-lashing and ridiculous bullying tactics displayed by many on this forum, as I have found out recently.

I had no plans to rejoin this forum, After speaking to many of the Moderators on this forum, I've decided not to close my account and today changed my username for something more appropriate.

Regards.

good grief ULWalking Phil. Good to see your sticking around but you might want to tone down that proclamation (edit: ie. what detractors should do with themselves..)?? otherwise I can see another restless night coming from that challenge..

Welcome back Phil

Nuts wrote::shock: good grief ULWalking Phil. Good to see your sticking around but you might want to tone down that proclamation?? otherwise I can see another restless night coming..

Yes, ULWalkingPhil I think it's very appropriate name for myself. Seeing that this is what I like and what I have endeavored to become and very proud of managing this feat with maintaining durable gear, safety and comfort, contrary what many believe on this forum. What better name could I chose after the fiasco of last week on this forum? I'm proud of this name and I'm proud of my pack weight. Something I will not be listing on here, this will be on a rare occasion i will be listing weights on this forum.

There are many great people on this forum and I've received many PM's and emails of support of late, which has been very encouraging. I thank those that sent me messages of support, you know who you are,
And those that don't like it can go get,,,, You know what. You know who you are. You are all on my Foes list.

PS, I love this new section on the forum, It's just up my league.

Strider wrote:Welcome back Phil

Thanks Strider.

Was not going to return. With the support I had received of late and many wanting me to return, I thought a name change and one last try at this was warranted.

Weights on my behalf will rarely ever be mentioned. I figure this will shut up a lot of the bullys out there on this forum that I found last week.

ULWalkingPhil wrote:A lot of UL bushwalkers are not bothered to post on this forum for the back-lashing and ridiculous bullying tactics displayed by many on this forum, as I have found out recently.

I had no plans to rejoin this forum, After speaking to many of the Moderators on this forum, I've decided not to close my account and today changed my username for something more appropriate.

Regards.

It's not just you but for the good of everyone, things went down recently that were an extreme example of where this forum does not want to be.
As such, a lot has been discussed and continues to be discussed, with a view to addressing such issues for the good of all forum members.

Just words, but we mean it.
Not my place to discuss any further, but I am confident that the issue of recent past will not be repeated.

By the way, I still prefer Featherfoot...

ULWalkingPhil wrote:

Nuts wrote::shock: good grief ULWalking Phil. Good to see your sticking around but you might want to tone down that proclamation?? otherwise I can see another restless night coming..

Yes, ULWalkingPhil I think it's very appropriate name for myself. Seeing that this is what I like and what I have endeavored to become and very proud of managing this feat with maintaining durable gear, safety and comfort, contrary what many believe on this forum. What better name could I chose after the fiasco of last week on this forum? I'm proud of this name and I'm proud of my pack weight. Something I will not be listing on here, this will be on a rare occasion i will be listing weights on this forum.

There are many great people on this forum and I've received many PM's and emails of support of late, which has been very encouraging. I thank those that sent me messages of support, you know who you are,
And those that don't like it can go get,,,, You know what. You know who you are. You are all on my Foes list.

PS, I love this new section on the forum, It's just up my league.

Nice to see you still around Phil, and with some attitude I see .

Yes, I like it but perhaps not Featherfoot?

Um? It is a public forum and people will differ and be challenged in their choices. The forum covers every aspect of bushwalking with strong loyalty to approach and brands. Providing the challenging does not get personal it is a much more useful place if people stand their ground.

Tony for a long time lead the UL charge. It is not easy setting a different path and personally some UL type gear has made it into my pack through his efforts. But that does not mean that I will be converting to UL. My walking and preferences means that I am swinging back to heavier gear choices.

It is rather repetitive if someone post a thread on one item and suddenly it becomes a UL versus other debate. If some loves a jacket then surely the discussion should revolve around it and its competitors. Not that it is too heavy or too light. If someone post that x lasted or did not last then they should not be called a lier or incompetent user. The simple fact is it did or did not work for them.

On a Western Arthur trip we had pack weights ranging from UL to heavy. The lighter gear needed more looking after but then it was easier to look after as you can one handed lift a light pack while might be forced to drag a heavier one.

I must have missed the recent debate but unless the UL advocate was stalked across posts (as was once) then hold your ground. But do not think that every one will on the road to Damascus.

Cheers

Hi Phil, glad you decided to stick around and I love this new forum sub-title.

@Davidf61. It's a good question. When we started bushwalking two years ago I knew we were going to walk trails and tracks for a while until we became more skilled at navigation and could start bushbashing. Given those conditions and the fact that we were starting from zero gear, I decided we might as well start light (hubby didn't argue!) and I haunted the BPL site. Our base weight for 3-season walks in Victoria is 5kg so we're not far off UL. The only time I really get caught up in gear now is when we want to expand our range of walking conditions (eg. snowshoeing and snow camping this year). Instead, I spend a lot of time reading on this site and people's blogs to get ideas for places to stretch our legs. So yeah, I'm not posting about LW/UL but that doesn't mean I'm not doing it.

Hubby travels a lot for work and our gear set up is for 2/4/6 people so over the past few months I've been slowly creating a set-up for myself going solo which is basically smaller/lighter cookset and (hopefully soon) new tent. That is why I really enjoy posts by Phil and others on LW gear and walking, because I get to learn from their experiences of lightweight gear in Australian conditions.

And, BTW, we love our tarptents (Double Rainbow and Hogback) which have been just right for the conditions we have used them in. And, like onestepmore, I am the one who sets the tent up and our Exped Synmat UL7 mats because I am gentle with them. I'm completely fine with looking after more fragile gear if it means I can carry less weight. We are far more comfortable with our LW gear now than I ever was with the heavy indestructible stuff I had as a kid or in girl guides. Having said that, when I go bushbashing I wear more appropriate clothing but the rest of my LW gear is still just fine.

ENT, it wasn't my call but I think the idea was for a forum section where people interested in reducing weight (for whatever reason) could have a discussion, rather than a debate? I guess the assumption would help that they either understand the compromises or the compromises will be pointed out by other people that have tried those compromises rather than justify every post. ie help rather than hinder them, an aside rather than quickly becoming the focus of the topic.

Welcome Back Phil

Nuts wrote:ENT, it wasn't my call but I think the idea was for a forum section where people interested in reducing weight (for whatever reason) could have a discussion, rather than a debate? I guess the assumption would help that they either understand the compromises or the compromises will be pointed out by other people that have tried those compromises rather than justify every post. ie help rather than hinder them, an aside rather than quickly becoming the focus of the topic.

That is my understanding as well and as for discussion verses debate there is a difference I suppose. Bit like people pushing short jackets on a thread about long jackets. Discussion or debate?

Cheers

wayno wrote:says me who wore my ultralight rainshell through gorse , effectively making it a pin cushion....

I fell into matagouri on a downhill slope wearing a 300+ gm Integral Designs Event jacket. The hill was steep enough and the matagouri thick enough that I had some difficulty getting out and on my feet.

As soon as I fell I thought "that's stuffed the jacket"

To my great surprise, it didn't rip, and I cant find any holes. It has only been used in light rain since, but it doesn't seem to leak.

Lucky ? Or what ?

Ent wrote:That is my understanding as well and as for discussion verses debate there is a difference I suppose. Bit like people pushing short jackets on a thread about long jackets. Discussion or debate?

Cheers

Ok. I didn't think you Had got it by your post.. For you it might be better to understand that this wont be the right place to preach about the road to Damascus, call people fashion victims, tell them what a 'proper' jacket is.. That sort of thing...