Ultralight toothpaste

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light backpacking base weight less than 9.1kg
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extreme-ultralight backpacking base weight less than 1.4kg

Ultralight toothpaste

Postby icefest » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 12:22 pm

I've been thinking about what I can do for lightweight toothpaste for a while.

Just saw this: http://www.gizmag.com/poppits-toothpaste-pods/43729/
Soluble toothepaste doses.

No fluoride though - so it's out.

I've tried dehy'd stuff, and that just goes sticky :(

At present I'm using the 15-25g sample tubes, but they have lots of waste and I can't always get the right size.
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby GPSGuided » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 12:29 pm

How about parting them out? Baking soda for cleaning and then apply dental mousse (in small container) for F supplement.
http://www.oralhealthcrc.org.au/content ... ousse-plus
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby Mark F » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 1:08 pm

I believe you can dry your regular toothpaste in little blobs on cling film. It will rehydrate in the mouth. https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/17147/
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby Tortoise » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 1:34 pm

icefest wrote:I've tried dehy'd stuff, and that just goes sticky :(

I found it varies a lot between brands and specific types. Some went sticky, some went crumbly, some were juuuuuust right. Problem is I get whatever is on special at the time, and didn't write down which varieties worked the best. :( I will next time.
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby Aushiker » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 2:21 pm

Mark F wrote:I believe you can dry your regular toothpaste in little blobs on cling film. It will rehydrate in the mouth. https://backpackinglight.com/forums/topic/17147/


I saw this discussed in a video last night ... going to give it ago. Goto the 3 minute 53 second mark.


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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby Orion » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 3:47 pm

I tried drying my toothpaste in a dehydrator. Nothing happened after many hours, the little dots stayed the same. I guess it's a function of the type of toothpaste.

I did one trip without toothpaste. My dentist agreed that toothpaste isn't really necessary. It's the brushing (and flossing) that matters. For the first couple of days I was fine with just brushing. But after that the slight residue of toothpaste on my brush was gone and it just didn't taste very good. I realized I needed only a hint of toothpaste to be happy.

So on my next trip that's what I took, just a smear of toothpaste in a small ziplock bag. It was a tiny fraction of what I use at home, about 5g of paste for a 9 day trip. It worked okay. It would have been nicer to have some sort of mini squeeze bottle though as the ziplock was kind of messy inside.

I can't imagine buying those pricey kickstarter pods unless they were smaller and also my preferred brand and type of paste. And less expensive.
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby Gadgetgeek » Wed 08 Jun, 2016 7:28 pm

I do the lush tabs. Not for everyone and foamy, but they do get the job done, at least you can go to sleep without furry teeth. Also from an LNT perspective, no triclosan is a bonus as far as I care. Might not matter in the grand scheme, but its worth considering.
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby ribuck » Thu 09 Jun, 2016 1:11 am

On one seven-day walk a long time ago, I took a powdered toothpaste that I found at a shop that sold Japanese items. It caused great amusement to the rest of the party when it frothed up vigorously into a mass of black bubbles that foamed out of my mouth and down my chin. It did the job though.

And I once read in a book on ultralight hiking that one should chew a piece of fibrous vegetation until it could be used as a toothbrush, then do the main round of brushing, finishing off by adding a pinch of salt for an acceptable "mouthfeel". I haven't tried that one.

I do cut half of the handle off my toothbrush to save weight and bulk.
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby Walk_fat boy_walk » Thu 09 Jun, 2016 10:50 am

I use these: http://www.archtekinc.com/Toothpaste-Ta ... count.html

A handful of them in a zip lock bag weighs next to nothing

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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby GPSGuided » Thu 09 Jun, 2016 11:10 am

Seems to me that many are more focused on the taste of their oral hygiene agent than functional objectives. Taking away the taste, baking soda (already powdered) + dental floss are probably all we need to do a really good job out there. As suggested earlier, if one cares for F supplement, then dental mousse or other high F dental care products are available. If taste matters, then chew a mint leaf or a strip of Listerine Oral Care Strips. Dehydrating and repackaging regular toothpastes are just work with no gain.

Article on baking soda in dental care
http://rahbardentistry.blogspot.com.au/ ... -with.html

Listerine PocketPaks
https://www.listerine.com.au/product/li ... AvnZ8P8HAQ
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby icefest » Thu 09 Jun, 2016 11:29 am

Gadgetgeek wrote:I do the lush tabs. Not for everyone and foamy, but they do get the job done, at least you can go to sleep without furry teeth. Also from an LNT perspective, no triclosan is a bonus as far as I care. Might not matter in the grand scheme, but its worth considering.

I was really excited reading the page, but still no fluoride :(
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby Orion » Thu 09 Jun, 2016 11:32 am

GPSGuided wrote:Seems to me that many are more focused on the taste of their oral hygiene agent than functional objectives. Taking away the taste, baking soda (already powdered) + dental floss are probably all we need to do a really good job out there.

No brush?

I thought the taste wouldn't matter to me. Turns out it did, big time. Toothpaste was a high priority item when I finished my toothpasteless walk. I won't go without it again.
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby GPSGuided » Thu 09 Jun, 2016 11:42 am

Talk to any dentist, the benefits of dental floss alone far outweigh the benefits of brushing alone. Floss gets to the food and bacteria trapping areas in the oral cavity that brushing and rinsing can't. And it's those trapped area that will cause all the caries and gum diseases. As such, dental floss followed by a rinse would do most. Adding baking soda will further improve that benefit along with consideration for F supplementation. Brushing with toothpaste is more about what we are used to than for the best oral care practice. Read the article and 'toothpasteless' walk does not have to mean there's no optimised oral hygiene care, just no commercial toothpaste. If you really wants to 'brush', then use your finger after you've done the flossing. Much better outcome than a regular toothbrush alone (with or without toothpaste).
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby BarryK » Thu 09 Jun, 2016 11:11 pm

Just for the record, I came across this recently, they are selling 25ml tubes of toothpaste:

http://www.gogogear.com.au/travel-toiletries/?sort=bestselling

Much cheaper, 25gm Colgate:

http://www.traveluniverse.com.au/Dr-Fresh-Toothbrush-Toothpaste-Travel-Kit/DFI-10413.htm?sqr=toothpaste&
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby Orion » Fri 10 Jun, 2016 12:29 am

GPSGuided wrote:Talk to any dentist...

I did. She contradicted what you posted.
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 10 Jun, 2016 1:03 am

Good luck to her patients.
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby Orion » Fri 10 Jun, 2016 4:12 am

Funny! But you did say "ask any dentist". You must have really meant something else.

I'd love to read a paper on the efficacy of floss-only hygiene but I doubt it exists.
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Ultralight toothpaste

Postby RonK » Fri 10 Jun, 2016 6:17 am

Orion wrote:
GPSGuided wrote:Talk to any dentist...

I did. She contradicted what you posted.

Mine didn't. He is a strong advocate on the benefits of flossing.

His advice to me is that brushing wears away the tooth enamel but doesn't reach into the interdental gaps where decay often occurs and plaque builds up.

Oh - and I can tell you his name. :)
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby Gadgetgeek » Fri 10 Jun, 2016 7:35 am

In a lot of ways dentistry is still 100 years behind the rest of medicine, since the focus is on cosmetics, not actual care. But what it also means is that different dentists have differing opinions in whats best because they don't have a large body of gathered evidence to turn to, all they have is anecdote. And the plural of anecdote is not data.

As long as your teeth feel clean, you'll survive a couple of weeks in the woods. even if they are not, I'd suspect by the time is a health problem, something else might be a bigger worry.
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby Orion » Fri 10 Jun, 2016 9:08 am

RonK wrote:He is a strong advocate on the benefits of flossing.

My dentist is also a strong advocate of flossing; that wasn't the point.

RonK wrote:His advice to me is that brushing wears away the tooth enamel but doesn't reach into the interdental gaps where decay often occurs and plaque builds up.

Does that mean your dentist advises you to not brush?

Of course Gadgetgeek is right that in the context of a typical bushwalk it doesn't matter, but it's still an interesting question.
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 10 Jun, 2016 9:16 am

Orion, I will accept I was loose there with my statement. To rectify, I am sure you'll feel better and agree if I qualified with "All contemporary dentists with current best practice knowledge will...". Seriously, this is not even an issue that's worth a flame war over as the facts are out there. Whilst brushing (manual or electric), flossing, inter-dental brush and water jet flossing are all important current day mechanical consumer dental care techniques, in view of need for weight reduction for a few days out of civilisation, floss + finger rubs (with or without a finger brush) will trump an adult sized toothbrush alone. Baking soda is more than an efficacious substitute for commercial toothpastes. Then, one can mechanically brush with a regular toothbrush as much as one wants once returned home to remove the less destructive superficial plaques. The key really is largely about getting to the highly destructive interdental space and the upper reaches of gum pockets that brushing can't access. It's the trapping in those areas of debris and bacteria that affects our dental health the most. Anything superficial ideally would be brushed off but can also be limited by just the rubbing of food or a finger. What we also know is, controlling those bacteria and maintaining general dental health will also reduce many other general health issues eg. Heart disease and diabetes amongst others.

http://www.mygermfighter.com/dental-flo ... is-better/

So I'll summarise in terms of out-of-civilisation dental health, dental floss + finger rubs + baking soda trumps manual toothbrush brushing + toothpaste dot.

Orion wrote:Does that mean your dentist advises you to not brush?

This is a bushwalking and camping thread, and further it's under the UL camping sub-forum. So the discussion was specific on how to minimise weight whilst gaining the greatest benefits and protection whilst out. Having dental trouble whilst out there would be no fun at all.

No one is disagreeing with the combined use of brushing and flossing to be the basic combo when at home or in civilisation.
Last edited by GPSGuided on Fri 10 Jun, 2016 9:24 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 10 Jun, 2016 9:19 am

combined with above.
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby Aushiker » Fri 10 Jun, 2016 10:04 am

Another possible option for carrying some toothpaste is maybe a small plastic bottle or container along the lines of these. Maybe without the dropper part to save weight and make the flow easier. Another possible option is something like these 5 gram containers.

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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby icefest » Fri 10 Jun, 2016 10:34 am

Got sick of the "he said/she said" arguments here and went to the horses mouth: OVID Medline Medical journal database.
With the following search:
Image
I searched for dentifrices, baking soda, and dental plaque.
Combined them with AND
Limited results to articles published in this century.

In total I had 8 articles that were relevant:
Image

Reading through them...

Ughhh. So much bad science.
Like the one funded by a company that produces a certain toothpaste, without further clarification of how much input the company had. There is also no mention of how the groups were randomised, no standard deviation, and no mention if any people dropped out.

It's so bad that I would not rely on the article any more than saying that "some toothpastes may decrease plaque amounts when compared to no brushing".


I think I'll just stick with my standard fluoride toothpaste.
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby RonK » Fri 10 Jun, 2016 2:08 pm

Orion wrote:Does that mean your dentist advises you to not brush?

Not at all - but the proposition in that post was the benefits of dental floss alone vs the benefits of brushing alone.

GPSGuided wrote:Talk to any dentist, the benefits of dental floss alone far outweigh the benefits of brushing alone.
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 10 Jun, 2016 4:13 pm

Thanks Icefest for detailing your search. Yes, I did similar and as you've found, lots of sub-standard research or ones where there are commercial backing. For the conditions sought on UL backpacking and wilderness activities, there clearly aren't any definitive trials that one can apply that idealised 'evidence based' approach. As such, one can only apply one's physiopathological understanding on dental and oral disease states and select an approach that makes most logical sense. That's how we had to advance and make clinical decisions before full-on 'evidence based' approach came on the scene. So many real life clinical situations just don't have matching trial data for guidance, or conflicting data.

Good that you have a call for your situation while I have to thank your prompting, I'm going to make some adjustments to mine. :mrgreen:
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby Orion » Fri 10 Jun, 2016 4:20 pm

RonK wrote:
Orion wrote:Does that mean your dentist advises you to not brush?

Not at all - but the proposition in that post was the benefits of dental floss alone vs the benefits of brushing alone.

GPSGuided wrote:Talk to any dentist, the benefits of dental floss alone far outweigh the benefits of brushing alone.


Exactly. That's what my dentist would not say, that floss "far outweighs" the benefits of brushing. Is she wrong? I would like to see the evidence but apparently there isn't any forthcoming. And if she were wrong it would have no bearing on her effectiveness as a dentist (despite insinuations to the contrary) since she strongly recommends both brushing and flossing, as I suspect virtually all good dentists do.
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby Orion » Fri 10 Jun, 2016 4:23 pm

As for weight savings floss is the wrong place to look. But I don't floss when bushwalking because my hands are usually not very clean. So I cut down the brush and minimize the paste. My oral hygiene kit for a typical bushwalk weighs less than 20g.
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby Lindsay » Fri 10 Jun, 2016 4:45 pm

I have found a small tube of toothpaste from the dentist and an airline amenities kit toothbrush cover my oral hygiene needs well enough. I have a small amount of dental floss that doubles as an emergency repair kit when teamed with a large needle.
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Re: Ultralight toothpaste

Postby GPSGuided » Fri 10 Jun, 2016 4:46 pm

The evidence lies in the pathophysiology of dental/peridental diseases. There's solid recognition that dental and gingival diseases with plaque at and below the gum line, along with associated bacterial load in those pocket locations cause the most severe short and long term damage to oral health. Those areas simply can't be accessed by traditional brushing techniques. As such, it's a no brainer to understand the value of consumer hygiene techniques that are able to access those areas ie. Floss, inter-dental brush, water floss etc. For more, 3-6 mthly dental hygiene at the dental surgery by the dentist or dedicated dental hygienist.

The logical rationale and evidences are there, it's an individual's choice from this point.
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