What "Color" is your Caldera (Cone)?

[hikin_jim]

The Caldera Cone is a proven and effective ultralight alcohol stove system -- but there are a lot of options.

Today, I thought I'd take a look at a couple of different versions of the Caldera Cone system.


If you're interested in alcohol stoves, perhaps this brief look can help you decide What Color is your Caldera?
(with apologies to What Color is Your Parachute?)

HJ

[Gusto]

Why people always refer to these are other similar stoves as "alcohol sotves".

Surely in Australian terms they are Metho stoves? Or do people use something other then Metholayted Spirits? if so, why?


I do note that you are from the US, but still many Aussies on here refer to them as alcohol

[Aushiker]

I refer them to alcohol stoves as it just seems simply given the "international" nature of the forums that I tend to engage in.

BTW does anyone know if the Zip Lock containers HJ refers to are available in our supermarkets? I know I should get down and have a look but I am allergic to shopping centres at this time of the year

Andrew

[etrangere]

I think 'internationally' stoves like the trangia would more often than not be refered to as 'metho stoves'. Trangia themselves use the term methylated spirits when refering to fuel usage. First Trangia I bought was in Sctoland. Australia, UK and Europe all tend to call them metho stoves.

Personally I find how Americanisms pervade other countries languages and cultures both sad and annoying so I stick to "metho", plus when I think of alcohol something to drink comes to mind not something to light a match to!

[Aushiker]

Personally I find how Americanisms pervade other countries languages and cultures both sad and annoying so I stick to "metho", plus when I think of alcohol something to drink comes to mind not something to light a match to!

I just prefer to use alcohol as the term. Each to their own of course.

Andrew

[Franco]

Fuel names can be confusing.
In the UK forum mentholated spirit is usually called meths not metho.
In a recent thread there (OM) someone mentioned metho and it was understood by one or two to mean methanol .
(the thread started by quoting Roger Caffin who was talking about our version , that is the 95% Ethanol type)
BTW, Trangia calls their burner a "spirit " burner.
http://www.trangia.se/english/2937.faq.html
That of course can also be confusing because spirit could be understood to be white spirit , that is Coleman fuel also known as Shellite here....
Incidentally I was reading about a " wax gas" stove this morning (US forum) . That wax was promptly identified "paraffin" however in the UK paraffin is kerosene...
Franco

[Aushiker]

I find the International Fuel Names list a handy resource.

Andrew

[etrangere]

I find the International Fuel Names list a handy resource.

Andrew

Yeah pretty much the same as the fuel list on the trangia site

http://www.trangia.se/core/files/Names_ ... 110318.pdf

[hikin_jim]

Why people always refer to these are other similar stoves as "alcohol sotves". Surely in Australian terms they are Metho stoves?

Oops, sorry, my bad. I just failed Cultural Sensitivity 101, didn't I? Yes, in Australian terms, they might well be called metho stoves.

Or do people use something other then Metholayted Spirits? if so, why?

Consider yourself lucky. Metholated spirts make an excellent stove fuel. In many parts of the world, the US and Canada for example, metho just isn't available. One can buy something vaguely similar, but true metho is really good stuff, and you have to pay more for it in the US.

As to what we do use:
Methanol (methyl alcohol) is relatively cheap (about $14 USD for four liters) and works well although one must carry more than if metho were available since the amount of heat/gram in methanol is less than metho.
"Denatured" alcohol, which is really what metho is (one type of anyway), but in the US it's unregulated, so God only knows what's in it. A popular type called SLX is roughly equal portions of ethanol and methanol with some other nasty things thrown in.
190 Proof Ethanol. This is liquor. It's expensive to be sure, but it makes an excellent fuel. Some people do burn it.

HJ

[hikin_jim]

BTW does anyone know if the Zip Lock containers HJ refers to are available in our supermarkets? I know I should get down and have a look but I am allergic to shopping centres at this time of the year

If you absolutely can't find them in Oz, send me a PM (or whatever they call them in Australia). I'm sure there's a way to hook you up. They're as cheap as chips here.

HJ

[Aushiker]

BTW does anyone know if the Zip Lock containers HJ refers to are available in our supermarkets? I know I should get down and have a look but I am allergic to shopping centres at this time of the year

If you absolutely can't find them in Oz, send me a PM (or whatever they call them in Australia). I'm sure there's a way to hook you up. They're as cheap as chips here.

Thank you kind sir. I will see how I go at the Supermarkets (we have two brands) and if I fail I will be in touch

Andrew

[Mark F]

Hi Jim,

Ask a Kiwi (New Zealander) to say "cheap as chips"; ... and its colour, not color, over here.

And for some others it is methYlated not methOlated and certainly not "mentholated". We do have a habit of shortening peoples names and adding O at the end - Jack or Jackson become Jacko etc.

Ethanol = drinkable = lots of tax. Add methanol and it becomes (in theory) undrinkable, but I have seen, many years ago, metho in the drinks fridge of a supermarket in Wilcannia. No doubt for the "benefit" of the local indigenous population. A flagon of cheap sherry + a bottle of metho was unfortunately a common drink.

Our metho used to be produced from sugar cane by CSR (Commonwealth Sugar Refinery Ltd), I would expect it still is which is why it is high in ethanol. They also make a good rum called Inner Circle, the OP version used to be for CSR managers and clients only.

[Tony]

There are two main types of Ethanol, Rectified and Absolute, when distilling some water remains and if a purer alcohol is needed, chemicals like benzine maybe used.

From wiki

PurificationMain article: Ethanol purification
Ethylene hydration or brewing produces an ethanol–water mixture. For most industrial and fuel uses, the ethanol must be purified. Fractional distillation can concentrate ethanol to 95.6% by volume (89.5 mole%). This mixture is an azeotrope with a boiling point of 78.1 °C, and cannot be further purified by distillation.

Common methods for obtaining absolute ethanol include desiccation using adsorbents such as starch, corn grits, or zeolites, which adsorb water preferentially, as well as azeotropic distillation and extractive distillation. Most ethanol fuel refineries use an adsorbent or zeolite to desiccate the ethanol stream.

In another method to obtain absolute alcohol, a small quantity of benzene is added to rectified spirit and the mixture is then distilled. Absolute alcohol is obtained in the third fraction, which distills over at 78.3 °C (351.4 K).[14] Because a small amount of the benzene used remains in the solution, absolute alcohol produced by this method is not suitable for consumption, as benzene is carcinogenic.[40]

There is also an absolute alcohol production process by desiccation using glycerol. Alcohol produced by this method is known as spectroscopic alcohol—so called because the absence of benzene makes it suitable as a solvent in spectroscopy.

Rectified

Rectified spiritsRectified spirit, an azeotropic composition containing 4% water, is used instead of anhydrous ethanol for various purposes. Wine spirits are about 188 proof. The impurities are different from those in 190 proof laboratory ethanol.[46]

and

Absolute

Absolute ethanol Absolute or anhydrous alcohol refers to ethanol with a low water content. There are various grades with maximum water contents ranging from 1% to ppm levels. Absolute alcohol is not intended for human consumption. If azeotropic distillation is used to remove water, it will contain trace amounts of the material separation agent (e.g. benzene).[43] Absolute ethanol is used as a solvent for laboratory and industrial applications, where water will react with other chemicals, and as fuel alcohol. Spectroscopic ethanol is an absolute ethanol with a low absorbance in ultraviolet and visible light, fit for use as a solvent in ultraviolet-visible spectroscopy.[44]

Tony

[hikin_jim]

Thank you, Tony, I'd love to play with either variety, but short of making connections with someone from a university or lab, I'll probably have to content myself with the 190 proof type one buys at a liquor store as the best I can reasonably get. Honestly though, I'll probably mostly use either methanol or the stuff that passes for metho here (roughly 50/50 methanol/ethanol with a smattering of other nasties), both of which can be had for about $4.50/liter. 190 proof is expensive, illegal in my state, and, well, it seem such a shame to burn something so dear.

I dream of nice 95/5 Aussie metho at night. Well, not really, but it surely would be nice to have 95/5 readily available.

HJ

[hikin_jim]

And for some others it is methYlated not methOlated and certainly not "mentholated".

Well, yes, but mentholated spirits have such a nice, minty scent don't you think?

I have seen, many years ago, metho in the drinks fridge of a supermarket in Wilcannia. No doubt for the "benefit" of the local indigenous population. A flagon of cheap sherry + a bottle of metho was unfortunately a common drink.

Horrifying. Yes, theoretically, the liver will be preferentially engaged with the ethanol, but would I take the risk of imbibing methanol? Risks did you say? Oh, yes, a couple of "minor" side effects like permanent blindness or even death.

HJ

[Tony]

Thank you, Tony, I'd love to play with either variety, but short of making connections with someone from a university or lab, I'll probably have to content myself with the 190 proof type one buys at a liquor store as the best I can reasonably get. Honestly though, I'll probably mostly use either methanol or the stuff that passes for metho here (roughly 50/50 methanol/ethanol with a smattering of other nasties), both of which can be had for about $4.50/liter. 190 proof is expensive, illegal in my state, and, well, it seem such a shame to burn something so dear.

I dream of nice 95/5 Aussie metho at night. Well, not really, but it surely would be nice to have 95/5 readily available.

HJ

Hi HJ,

I have access to Absolute alcohol at my work, we use it in the cleaning of our density measuring instrument and other instruments, some general cleaning and as a tool lubricant when machining aluminium, but as I do not know what chemicals where used to remove the last of the water I do not drink it, our wines are cheap and of a very good quality and I prefer them.

A mix of 50/50 ethanol methanol is still quite a good mixture, if you go to mine and Roger Caffins The Performance of Alcohol Fuels for Backpacking Stoves Part One: Three Straight Alcohols and Alcohol Blends you will see that boiling 500 mls of water with Ethanol we used just under 11g of fuel with Methanol we used just over 13g of fuel and with a 50/50 blend we used just under 12g of fuel or 1g more per 500ml than straight Ethanol, so if you boil 10 liters of water on a trip that is 20g extra fuel if you use a 50/50 blend, not much really.

If I could I would send you some Australian Metho but I do not think it would be possible and if it was it would be more expensive that Everclear, when doing the research for the alcohol articles, I did come across some US suppliers of 90-95% Ethanol content Denatured alcohol but that was a few years ago and I do not have the URL's any more.

Tony

[hikin_jim]

A mix of 50/50 ethanol methanol is still quite a good mixture, if you go to mine and Roger Caffins The Performance of Alcohol Fuels for Backpacking Stoves Part One: Three Straight Alcohols and Alcohol Blends you will see that boiling 500 mls of water with Ethanol we used just under 11g of fuel with Methanol we used just over 13g of fuel and with a 50/50 blend we used just under 12g of fuel or 1g more per 500ml than straight Ethanol, so if you boil 10 liters of water on a trip that is 20g extra fuel if you use a 50/50 blend, not much really.

Oh, that's right. I had forgotten about that article. I think you and I have talked about that before.

That's very interesting. I didn't post it here since Aussie metho is such good stuff, but I posted on my blog an article about various alcohol fuels: Is Ethanol Worth It?

In the conditions I was testing under (see the bottom of the blog post) and with the equipment I was testing with, I found a 6ml (~5g) difference between a high ethanol content fuel and methanol. My testing is no where near as good as yours, and I'm running out in the open where there are a thousand uncontrolled variables, but none-the-less, the results were fairly consistent across multiple tests. And I do run a lot of tests. Yesterday, I started testing around 1500 PST and finished testing around 2030 PST. My wife was about to call Search and Rescue because I hadn't brought our daughter home by almost 2200. I still have to walk back out to the road after my testing, which in the dark carrying about 25kg* (including my daughter) is no small trick.

Interesting difference. I'm not quite sure how to account for the difference. Perhaps I should repeat the tests with a different stove set up. I used the Caldera Cones since I have two of them and can conduct side-by-side simultaneous tests. My hope is that simultaneous tests will in effect control for fluctuations in environmental variables.

HJ

*In addition to my daughter, I carried ten stoves, four windscreens, three pots, three different classes of fuel (propane, Shellite, and metho), a variety of pot stands, and a remote canister rig as well as food, water, and equipment for two people. What was I thinking?

[Tony]

Hi HJ,

In the conditions I was testing under (see the bottom of the blog post) and with the equipment I was testing with, I found a 6ml (~5g) difference between a high ethanol content fuel and methanol. My testing is no where near as good as yours, and I'm running out in the open where there are a thousand uncontrolled variables, but none-the-less, the results were fairly consistent across multiple tests. And I do run a lot of tests. Yesterday, I started testing around 1500 PST and finished testing around 2030 PST.

As you know stove testing is not an exact science, I am not sure why I got different results than you. My tests where done under the same controlled conditions and all weight measurements where done to an accuracy of 0.1g and the temperature to 0.1C, the results are the average of three tests. I have also spent many hours and days testing.

I started testing around 1500 PST and finished testing around 2030 PST. My wife was about to call Search and Rescue because I hadn't brought our daughter home by almost 2200. I still have to walk back out to the road after my testing, which in the dark carrying about 25kg* (including my daughter) is no small trick

2200 is a bit late,one positive is your wife does not bring your daughter out to your garage to introduce you to her.

*In addition to my daughter, I carried ten stoves, four windscreens, three pots, three different classes of fuel (propane, Shellite, and metho), a variety of pot stands, and a remote canister rig as well as food, water, and equipment for two people. What was I thinking?

You need a pack horse.

Tony

[hikin_jim]

As you know stove testing is not an exact science, I am not sure why I got different results than you. My tests where done under the same controlled conditions and all weight measurements where done to an accuracy of 0.1g and the temperature to 0.1C, the results are the average of three tests. I have also spent many hours and days testing.

I have some thoughts, call them semi-educated speculation, as to why our results may be different.
1. I believe you're testing with really good fuels. I'm testing with the unregulated cr@p they get away with selling over here. The various adulterants used may impact heat content per gram and heat output per minute. It's really a crap shoot in the unregulated US alcohol market. I use the word alcohol intentionally here because the metho readily available in Australia simply does not exist in the US.
2. I'm testing in the out-of-doors. Environmental heat loss will be exacerbated. Very possibly the higher heat per minute output of ethanol is better at overcoming the increased environmental heat loss of the outdoors. My tests were run on top of a picnic table (extremely unsheltered in other words) near the edge of a substantial drop off on a fairly cool day. The temperature may have gotten up to 11 or 12C, but for most of the day was below that.

HJ