Mapping GSPs, no perfect experience

[Ent]

Hi Photohiker

Re the 3D representations still figuring them out. Mount Victoria on the weekend looked a lot steeper in real life than on the three dimensional view.

Not sure what Memory-Map do with the maps. There appears to be a large gap between what can be done with maps and what is being done. At the end of the day they are users of information provided by other organizations.

Would be great if Tasmap would get out of the sixteenth century and make maps available in generic non propriety formats at a reasonable cost. It would be good to buy the maps that you want and then the program you like matched to your preferred device.

At the moment it appears to me you are forced into Memory-Maps purely to get the mapping data. The more I use Memory-Maps the more I dislike it.

One of the most useful things you can use a GPS for is track back. On one Garmin this is easy but on the 62s it is a real pain. Memory-Map does not appear to have this feature.

O'well we are only Tasmanians and Tasmap is not interested in providing service.

Cheers

[tastrax]

From the memory map website (for tasmaps) - the Digital elevation model is .... "Digital Terrain Model At a sharp 25m resolution" - at that resolution remember that a few pixels on the map will all have the same elevation. It would better at a higher resolution such as 5 metres but not sure that is available.

http://www.ga.gov.au/topographic-mappin ... -data.html

[photohiker]

Hi Photohiker

Re the 3D representations still figuring them out. Mount Victoria on the weekend looked a lot steeper in real life than on the three dimensional view.

Can you upload the GPS altitude plot?

Any hill looks steeper than the map when you actually have to climb it. That said, contours and DEM accuracy can hide the roughness of a track - they don't expose every climb, just an average.

[sthughes]

Okay here's some more to add to this little debate review.

I carried 4 GPS units as well. An iPhone 4S running Nik's Bit Map software, a Garmin Etrex Venture HC, a crappy Huawei Android utilising a Nokia LD-3W bluetooth GPS unit and finally a Spot Connect. All were in a vertical bocket on the back of my pack, so better than chest pocket, worse than pack lit pocket.

Here's my 2c on each.

iPhone 4S (Running Bit Map and set to 30 second "breadcrumb" interval)

Pros:
App does all sorts of things no other will do
App fairly easy to use when you get used to it
Adjustable settings for accuracy or battery life when tracking
"Parent" device is easy to use, stable and reliable
One device does it all

Cons:
Must BYO maps, which in Tassie means piracy or exorbitant fees
Maps are difficult for a non-geek to transfer into app from original format (my eyes glazed over reading the detailed instructions )
Parent Device not waterproof and has short lived internal sealed battery
Touch screen wont work with gloves (use tongue instead!)
App only outputs google earth files and not gpx - hence more third party conversion software.

The iPhone 4S running Bit Map and set to 30 second intervals (in hindsight it should have been set to shorter intervals) is very comparable to the Holux and it could be argued better or worse. The points are a little more inconsistent and go astray more in the cave area, but in general the in and out tracks are closer to each other than with the Holux. With a closer interval setting this setup would probably be a little better still.

The iPhone 4S running Bit Map really showed up just how much difference the actual App makes to the iPhone GPS tracking performance.

Garmin 62s (red) versus Iphone 4S running Bit Map

Garmin 62s (red) versus Iphone 4S running Bit Map

Ipone 4S showdown: Memory Map (blue) versus Bit Map (green)

Last edited by sthughes on Mon 04 Jun, 2012 3:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[sthughes]

Garmin Etrex Venture HC

Pros:
Waterproof
Batteries last ages and uses 2 x AA
Fairly sensible UI (much better than 62s)

Cons:
Very small screen
Very SLOW CPU
Poor tacking in forest

This was a big disappointment, almost failing to track entirely in the forest section. I suspect the tracking settings may have been partly to blame as they were not set to default (I found out later). But it still should have performed much, much better from my experience with it. Further testing is needed and it will be coming to Mt Olympus next weekend to compare it again. If that doesn't redeem it then it's simply terrible.

Garmin 62s (red) Versus Etrex Venture HC

Garmin 62s (red) Versus Etrex Venture HC

[Son of a Beach]

An iPhone 4S running Nik's Memory Map software

What's this???

Seriously though, it was very useful to me to see the Bit Map comparison. I've never used any other GPS or GPS software when out bush so have never done such a comparison before. I was pleasantly surprised at how well Bit Map compared to more seriously commercial products. Thanks for posting this.

I also agree with the criticisms of Bit Map - there are some drawbacks with the app. I'm hoping to overcome some of them with the next major release (which will probably have different product name). Documentation is a problem. Getting 'any-old-map-image' into a tiled and calibrated form that an app can use (Bit Map's real differentiating factor) is non-trivial, unfortunately. Besides, I hate writing documentation (I do enough of that at work!). Maybe I need to employ a doc-writer.

[sthughes]

An iPhone 4S running Nik's Memory Map software

What's this???

Ooops - all fixed!

[sthughes]

Nokia LD-3W with Crappy Android

The Nokia LD-3W in combination with a crappy Android phone and Orux Maps proved to be accurate, although unreliable. The points are further apart - no doubt due to some typically hidden Android settings in Orux or the Bluetooth GPS app or the Huawei? Who knows - it's was all too complicated to bother with on a phone that crashes every few minutes! It may have stopped recording entirely due to the Nokia unit having a very old battery that doesn't hold its charge, or due to a phone crash or similar. Who knows, but what it did record was accurate and I can say from using it several years ago (with a decent phone) that it was perfectly reliable when newer.

Orux is much like Bit Map for Android but in my opinion better. I wish I could find a decent phone to run it. It comes with it's own Java PC app to help convert your own maps for use on the phone - that's where it beats Bit Map. Also if you have a 3G connection you can use a variety of online maps if you wish. It has a huge array of options and it's all reasonably intelligent once you get used to what all the icons represent and the extensive options menu. If a regular user it would be very good.

Pros:
Accurate, though wider spaced.
Lots of options
Reasonably easy to convert and use maps.
Also can use online maps in in 3G area.

Cons:
Complicated initial setup of external GPS
Usual Android glitches
Not waterproof (unless Motorola Defy - arghhh don't go there!)
Not glove friendly.
Battery issues for most devices.

Attachments

Garmin 62s (red) versus Nokia LD-3W & Android

Garmin 62s (red) versus Nokia LD-3W & Android

[sthughes]

Spot Connect

Finally the Spot Connect is not designed with this sort of thing in mind. It records a point every 10 minutes and then not only needs a GPS fix but also a Sat Phone network connection to transmit the locations to a web server as nothing is saved on the unit. So it flunked this test badly, but from the point of view of someone back home having some idea where you are and if you are still moving it did just fine, and that's all it claims to be good for.

The Spot Connect is terrible to use. Both the iPhone/Android app and the Spot website is all very clunky and a little unreliable. You can always get everything to work, but it's all just hard work and could be a lot easier.

Pros:
Batteries last about a week of walking and are 2 x AA (lithium)
Transmits in real time to keep armchair bushwalkers at home both informed (and jealous!)
Can also send text messages via app from anywhere
Waterproof

Cons:
Track log pruned once 7 days old (no record of start of 8 day+ walk)
Rubbish web and app interfaces
Glitchy bluetooth connection to app
Misses points regularly
Doesn't work well without clear sky view

Garmin 62s (red) versus Spot Connect

Garmin 62s (red) versus Spot Connect

[Ent]

Hi Photohiker

I will post the altitude plot when back near my laptop. It is the last bit that is straight up. Now this is the issue for humans versus map contour line. Ten metres is a long way straight down! But on a map can look mild.
Did anyone on the forum download and installed lizarddrinking 5 metre contour line information? It is a 2 GB download! Thinking of combining this with OSM or Shonkey maps. If this works then I will have a decent start for maps for the Garmin 62s.

Now fleabay re batteries for the Holux FT130. It is getting very annoying the lack of action by Ebay on suspect postings. Ok, buying “genuine” batteries for $5 from China is stretching commonsense to think that they are truly that but more than few, in fact most, “Australian” sellers are flogging so called “genuine“ batteries for many times that price. Now if you are lucky you can get truly genuine batteries as a store clears out its old stock on fleabay but it is near impossible to identify the true item from the posting and even when they turn up. I sent a email to an Australian seller asking for an honest answer with the proviso a wrong response will get a complaint to fleabay (totally useless as they never act), paypal (generally results in a full refund), and the Australian Police (um? Not sure what will happen there). Anyway, I did get a reply. They were “honest” that the batteries were non-genuine but looked and worked the same as the real deal.

Why can fleabay break every rule in the book and get away with it when a local shop would be facing criminal fraud charges? It is time for fleabay to be brought to account. Such lack of action by them means honest sellers are being disadvantaged while dishonest ones are using Ebay to commit crimes.

More than few times I have been looking for original replacements and not phased on price as I simply cannot get the item locally. On the last three transactions two were fakes and one original. Ok, I paid so little for one fake that did not bother as figured what the heck, as long as it worked that is all that mattered. The other one I filed a complaint with fleabay (no action seller still in business selling the exact same item) and Paypal. Full refund no further questions asked by Paypal.

I buy all my memory cards locally as it is said that anywhere from 60% to 90% are fakes with speed “upgraded” and suspect batches. To date not a card has failed but a friend has had “original” cards fail and when looking found that they are fakes. Yes buyer beware but fleabay is so bad for batteries that I have given up and either pay stuff all for them or do not buy on fleabay.

Cheers

[sthughes]

Compass & Map
Would have been useless due to perhaps 75-100m visibility all day.


And a few comments on the ones Brett had:

One might have expected the Garmin 62s to stand head and shoulders above the rest, but in fact it only pipped it's older, cheaper cousin the Garmin Edge 305 by a small margin. Both did an excellent job.

The Holux dropped a heap of points, but somehow on the way out managed to be consistently be about 20m away from it's track on the way in. Strange, but very good overall.


Next I'll just comment on the usability of the different devices. This is very much a personal thing and no doubt people will disagree with me. I like devices to have a billion settings, but I also like a device that is intuitive and easy to use. So to tell you where I come from: It puts me in a conundrum where I am an iPhone user and lover because they "just work", but they still frustrate me with their restrictions. Having tried 4 flavours of Android I have found that they infuriate me even more with glitches and to my mind a sometimes nonsensical and occasionally unintuitive UI, and many of the apps follow suit. Seems to be stuck in beta somehow. Nokia Symbian was fine because it "just worked", but was soooo clunky in comparison to Android and iOS it's not in the league.

So for usability:
Unrated: Garmin Edge 305 - I have not used this at all and hence can't comment.

The iPhone running Memory Map makes it all fairly simple. But their website is a shambles of outdated info and clear instructions are hard to find to get you off to a good start. But once working its easy as. My pick for usability. Getting tracks off is simple and they arrive by email as a GPX. You can use itunes as well though.

On the Garmin Venture the interface is SLOW but reasonably sensible and easy to get used to. It's a million miles behind the iPhone with Memory Map however. Once you know how it is done it's also quite easy using Shonky Maps and Contours Australia, but once again clear instructions are scarce. Tracks come off via a mini-USB to free Garmin software which can then convert to gpx etc.

The Garmin 62s is a further million miles behind and has such a dogs breakfast of an operating system I feel like throwing the thing in the river every time I use it. But it is very functional and does everything I could ask it to. The device is one that if you use it all the time it's fine, but an occasional user like me is infuriated by the "un-intuitiveness"! Like the Etrex Venture it's fairly easy to get maps on and off once you know how. Tracks come off via a mini-USB to free Garmin software which can then convert to gpx etc.

The Holux FT 130 is, well, Windows CE. It's probably fine if you like Windows CE but to me feels a zillion years old and the low res screen combined with tiny icons makes "fingering it" almost impossible, hence a clever stylus is provided. But still it's hard work as Memory Map is an App loaded on a completely different GPS and without warning, you end up in the main GPS' Windows CE home screen and....bla, bla, bla.... I could go on for ages but it's all just too hard! It comes with maps so that part is great, shame they are low resolution maps though and poor quality at that (not as good as the same maps downloaded by the iPhone App!). Oh and big award for the smallest ever touch screen keyboard ever! What are the yeys, like 16 pixels each? Tracks come off as GPX but not readable by some software until conversion in Memory Map desktop app.

Bit Map sometimes makes my Iphone crash (only App to do so) and converting maps to work on it is hard work. After sitting down to do so, my eyes glazed over before I could finish reading the very extensive instructions provided on Niks web page. But when working it is a one of a kind app that does all sorts of things no other app like it can do. If you don't mind lots of techno babble instructions and farting around with third party programs to convert maps and you own your own maps, then it's the bees knees of GPS mapping solutions in my opinion. The results of our test above speak volumes for the thinking behind it as it makes track accuracy or battery conservation possible within it's settings. Perhaps after some Red Bull and with lots of spare time I will be able to be bothered converting some maps to work on it, at which point it will be my "go-to" app. Apps get emailed off (don't show in iTunes) and are in an inconvenient KML format (Google Earth).

[tastrax]

Yep - I have the contours Australia 5 metre data (and shonky). Let me know an area of interest and I will send you a screen shot (its also in the pdf I attached) - you can also choose between various versions of shonky!!

baseCampChoices.jpg (17.82 KiB) Viewed 18888 times

Just be aware that shonky is now several years old and newer reserves may not be on this data. The contour data wont have changed much.

Just on the comparisons - the Etrex Venture HC probably has a much older gps module. There was another model HCX with the upgraded gps module.

[photohiker]

Did anyone on the forum download and installed lizarddrinking 5 metre contour line information? It is a 2 GB download! Thinking of combining this with OSM or Shonkey maps. If this works then I will have a decent start for maps for the Garmin 62s.

I'm sure several of us have. If you're ever in Adelaide, send me a PM and I'll be happy to give you a copy. Also, you must be able to get a decent broadband plan in Tas by now. Don't you guys have the NBN?

Now fleabay re batteries for the Holux FT130.

I just bought some from the local battery shoppe. Cheap and immediate. Be aware that the Nokia batteries are slightly smaller than the Holux's - they move around in the battery compartment more. I pad them with a piece of folded paper so no risk of power loss due to bumps.

There was another model HCX with the upgraded gps module

Yes. My Vista is a HCX. I can turn it on, chuck it in the boot of the car and it will get satellite lock. Have always been happy with it's GPS performance.

[Miyata610]

Touch screen wont work with gloves (use tongue instead!)

I believe people in colder climates carry a small sausage so they can use their phones with gloves on.

[tastrax]

Maybe we could ask Shonky to do an update with all the latest data and 5 metre contours?

[photohiker]

Maybe we could ask Shonky to do an update with all the latest data and 5 metre contours?

Shonky is based on the GA 250k data. Unless that is updated, shonky has nothing to do.

[sthughes]

I'm sure several of us have. If you're ever in Adelaide, send me a PM and I'll be happy to give you a copy. Also, you must be able to get a decent broadband plan in Tas by now. Don't you guys have the NBN?

Ent's only asking as I downloaded it for him on my parents ADSL2+ connection and there was a problem with the download (but right size file). I will try again in that case.
The NBN is pretty limited as only about a half dozen places have it thus far. I can't wait and am percerviering with NextG until it arrives at my place. I don't mind the cost of ADSL2+, but the $20 a month for a phone I never use just so I can connect to the net?

Just on the comparisons - the Etrex Venture HC probably has a much older gps module. There was another model HCX with the upgraded gps module.

Yes the "H" stand for High Sensitivity, which is what mine is. the 'x' model is the one with a card slot which mine isn't. The models prior to "H" were crap for reception, mine has always been amazing hence my surprise in this case. I hadn't used it for a year or more though!

I believe people in colder climates carry a small sausage so they can use their phones with gloves on.

Any type I should look for? Will Coles "Classic Beef" do, or should I go something more fancy? I have some kangaroo sausages at home but am scared the locals on these tracks might take offence to me using their cousins as a stylus.

[Ent]

Hi Tastax

The area would be Mount Rianna and Mount Victoria as recent trips are still fresh in the mind.

Hi Photohiker

Personal locations mean I am rather committed to 3G Internet.

Locally battery costs $39.95 for no name brand. Experience had been original batteries much better. Thanks for the tip on the size. Had similar issue with a phone once.

Good to read Contours 5 works from that site. We could not get them to work with an error. Checksum revealed different number.

In summary to date.

Wish Garmin would come up with decent maps and sensible copywrite protection that does not rip customers off if a GPS fails or gets lost. But Garmin have never really cared about their customers. Some great hardware but service and support, um they do not know what those words mean.

Memory-Map is more concerned with looking after itself than it's customers with its copywrite protection scheme. It's interface and functionality is lacking. No response on the SD card and map con job.

Tasmap have end gamed any other third party programs with their price gouging policies. Their mapping technology is steam powered but that just do not care.

The Holux is ok but not the great breakthrough claimed. In part due to hardware issues and more the very poor implementation of Memory-Map. Maybe Oziexplorer might turn it into something better.

The iPhone with a Lifeproof case is a worthy piece of kit but battery life will always be its downfall if you use it as a data logger.

It appears only a matter of time before free maps will push commercial maps out of contention for most domestic users. I will not shed a tear for Garmin and Tasmap. Very sad though for Tasmap that as custodians of over a hundred years of hard work by many it's current regime have dropped the ball.

Cheers

[Miyata610]

Memory-Map is more concerned with looking after itself than it's customers with its copywrite protection scheme. It's interface and functionality is lacking. No response on the SD card and map con job.

Hi Ent,

Copy protection has always been controversial.... in this case it hasn't affected me yet so I don't really care. It works, once authorised it doesn't seem to ever need to connect or authorise again. Let's hope that remains. They manage to sell Tasmaps very cheaply.... well done. Also, I like that they avoided charging me an extra 30% by avoiding Apple's App Store rules. Nice.

What would you like to see added in functionality and interface? On the iPhone and iPad platform it seems to do all I need. I guess I could think up some enhancements, but nothing urgent.

What's the con job? They give away the 250k stuff without any copy protection or authorization requirements, other than its in their format. Just download it from their site and stick it on the SD card, or install it on your iPhone via iTunes.

[bmak]

Did anyone on the forum download and installed lizarddrinking 5 metre contour line information? It is a 2 GB download! Thinking of combining this with OSM or Shonkey maps. If this works then I will have a decent start for maps for the Garmin 62s.

I'm using the Garmin 60 with the OSM and contours Australia combination and I've found it the best digital option.

I also have Mud Maps on my iphone with a few topo maps that works well as a backup.

In the past i had I've used Memory-Map but only on a PC for printing prior to a walk.

[Ent]

Hi Miyata

Copy protection is rather a pain in the neck for honest users and does not appear to slow down the pirates. The big issue with Memory-Maps is I am forced to use the SD card provided in the Holux. Now ideally I would like to load MM on the device itself as I expect as with the Garmin the speed is better running on the device rather than from the SD card. Also the agenda is to have OZIexplorer installed on the Holux as well. Now a logical approach is to have all on the device but memory capacity is limited on the device, but on say an 8GB memory card it would work. I fully expect to stuff up a memory card getting both to work together and any other application as it appears a common directory/file is needed. Now trashing a memory card and simply copying back to it is rather a fact of life with Windows but stuffing up the licensed SD card is not a thing of joy. What I want is the ability to play with a SD card until I get it right, or give up and go with the original or copy being used in the device.

Memory-Map gives four devices, split two mobile and two PCs. This is excellent for me as it means the iPhone and Holux with my laptop in Launceston and computer in Devonport (another laptop actually). Happy with that but why does my life have to be made so miserable if a devices fails, gets lost or stolen? The reason is copywrite protection. Now I am sure that a crack is out there somewhere on the internet but I have made a moral decision to adhere to copywrite or freeware but now thinking that this new age thinking is just an excuse for software companies to kick me in the teeth as obviously I am crook not to be trusted. Morally I have a big issue with that mindset that your customers are crooks. Well if that is the case then they should not be surprised that would be customers pirate software. Notice, it is would be customers not the actual customer Big thing is I have a few friends that buy the licence for work to met legal concerns and then install cracked software simply as it is easier to install! Also cracks come with a quality of instructions that software companies never seem to master.

Ok what interested me in Memory-Map was a mate running it on his iPhone. Shell out the $99 and have access to the product without having to be too concerned about my dying laptop or being miles away from my desktop. Also love the way the iStore works. So simple and if my iPhone gets stolen I can start again without finding disks, unlock keys, etc. Paid the money over for the iPhone app of MM and found out that Memory-Map decided that iStore was too expensive. Missed that u-turn! So then thought about the full $149 version but given that I am 3G internet the data limit downloading was a concern plus reliability on huge downloads. The disk set was $249. This sets a record for a premium for DVD media. So spotted the Holux and SD package. Bingo this might just work as it means I will get a waterproof and hopefully "proper" GPS. So went that way. In an another story then rebuilt my laptop from the ground up to get it reliable. That worked or largely worked with the usual Windows issues that come and go like random events.

Now the con job on the SD card from Memory-Map is this. The software package says find enclosed an 8 GB SD card loaded with amongst other things the 1:250,000 maps of Australia. Now that is handy for me as I do not need anything more than that level, at this moment. The package has the tape that says once broken no refund. What do I get? I find a 4GB SD card and only Tasmania and Victoria on the 1:250,00. Sure I can download them but then there goes my 3G internet issue again. Memory-Map have conned me What I got was not what I ordered. Also say I decide that I want Victoria and NSW maps at 1:25,000 level? Maybe an 8GB card can hold them but not a 4GB one. So life becomes harder having to swap SD cards. Now that is not a huge effort but I spend half my life looking for things and this is just one extra complication that I can do without. My laptop has 1200 GB on board storage so I never need to look for things.

Functionality. Well first off is recording and plotting sensitivity options for data logging use to avoid the erratic plots. On the PC version the ability to clean up a track. A quick look at the Holux PC software and it had an easy way to move points. A built in compass similar to Garmin and even the native Holux one. But most importantly the ability to backtrack. Also, an arrow when on the maps that points to North. Now remember with Memory-Maps you can not get the maps to orientate to direction of travel. In scrub on an overcast day finding North is the last thing on your mind. When scrub bashing there is nothing worse than being twenty metres off an easier path and having to figure out a line on a small screen. The Garmin Edge is wonderful as it tells you which way to go with arrows when riding a training route. Surely that is not too hard to do?

I think in many ways with your use of the iPhone and iPad means that you have made a simple life for yourself and full credit. But I am a PC person and do not own an iPad so need the bigger screen to plan things out. An iPad would do that job but I have too much stuff already. I suppose what is making me jaded is Memory by three learning required as the PC, CE and iPhone have not much in common.

Cheers

[Ent]

Hi

Here is the elevation plot from the Garmin track. Scale is always a trick thing. It is the last top bit that is more a rock climb than a walk. Basically the last twenty metres is up. Around the twin peaks are some impressive drops and interested how they show up on maps. The lousy weather meant no photographs from me.

Cheers

Attachments

Elevation plot of Mount Victoria.

[Miyata610]

Good answer.

As a software developer I went to a lot of trouble to protect my IP. Looking back I think I was overly paranoid, but I do sympathize with developers taking that route. At least they have a method to transfer licenses and to recover licenses if a device is damaged lost of stolen.

Hopefully they will send you the 8GB card that you were expecting.

On the iPhone and iPad they have an option to display your direction as a small arrow at the current location circle. It should help you orient the device. It uses the built in flux gate compass.

I have already sent them a request to allow some configuration options for gps activation, recording and plotting. I hope they do this.

[sthughes]

Interesting looking at the elevation plots - this really shows up the winners and loosers!

Firstly the "real" GPS's:

Garmin 62s

Garmin Edge 305

Garmin Etrex Venture HC

[sthughes]

and the "touchy, feely" mob:

Holux Funtrek 130

Iphone 4S (Bit Map app)

Iphone 4S (Memory Map app)

[Ent]

Hi Miyata610

Be great if Memory-Map can loosen up their copywrite scheme. Ok, maybe call home to register a new device to get SD cards unlocked to track if a user is being excessively “unlucky”. What ever scheme, it needs to be easy for the customer first and secondly hard for pirates. Any improvement in interface and functionality is a good thing for customers. The great thing with software is it can be improved and distributed cheaply. This means early adopters that largely funded the start-up can benefit by the improvements. But sadly many software companies see their first customers as milking cows to be charged for endless updates that give the required functionality and bug fixes. The iStore approach is wonderful, at least for customers.

People might have noticed my rather relentless views on Tasmap but this stems largely from their stupidity in decision making on pricing and restraint of trade. Bitmap is an example of a bit of gear designed by a bushwalker for bushwalkers. I love that approach to gear design as you get some great designs by someone that has the similar aims as you. Tasmap has basically handicapped that program and others of its ilk. So much for supporting and encouraging local businesses rhetoric as we have a government instrument actively frustrating this. Especially ridiculous when the then Premier was pushing information technology as the great leap forward in modernising Tasmania’s economy. It is easy to attack the politicians but my experience has been it is the bureaucracy, not the political arm, that is hard to modernise. Trouble is a minister has only so much time to devote to issues so by nature is forced to be selective. The trick as member of the public is to get them to focus on what can be done. That is why we have minister for various portfolios to allow a bit more push in getting the bureaucracy to operate in the public rather than its own interest.

I have no issue paying a living price for Tasmap if I get the ability to pick and chose applications that use the maps, but buying Tasmap again and again everytime I come across the “one” mapping application is rather rich. As mentioned many times Tasmap is actively encouraging Tasmanians to be criminals. It is amazing how many times I have been offered pirated copies of Tasmap. Actually I have never met anyone with a full set that actually brought them! From what I gather pirate central is rather close to homebase of Tasmap. At over a $1,000 and dealing with a bunch of indifferent individuals this is not surprising. At say $50 of $100 for a domestic licence with the maps in a ready to go or be imported format for software then many would not bother with pirated ones. Especially if the price included a couple of years updates.

Tasmap then should concentrate selling its maps on high quality media that is waterproof as this is rather hard for a domestic user to do. More than happy to pay the extra for the current waterproof Cradle Mountain Park version as it lasts and avoids the hassle of heavy, expensive, and difficult to store map cases. I am on my second copy of Cathedral as the paper maps just self destructs along the fold lines. But creative thinking from Tasmap is something that is as common as the Tasmanian Tiger, with the result likely to be the same for both.

Anyway, I do hope that Memory-Map correct what I would like to think is an innocent error, but it has been a few days and no response yet. Next step is ACCC and deceptive packaging complaint. Just great, buy a product and then windup in a bureaucratic battle to get what you ordered. Puts a bitter taste and strong recommendation not to buy Memory-Map. Much prefer to be writing issue fixed and how useful Memory-Map is. But time will tell on this.

Cheers

[Ent]

Hi Sthuges

Great post on the evaluation plots. A few things.

1. How far did we actually walk?

2. Guess which units have a barometer built in.

3. The left and right sides should be a mirror image but it appears that given that we were much faster on the way down than up all units have a different profile left to right. But some do it better than others.

4. Heck, Bitmap versus Memory-Map is interesting. On the top shirt pocket position of my iPhone running Memory-Map had a rather dramatic effect but on the way down it should be similar to the best non barometer units as placed in the pack lid. Err?

Cheers

Last edited by Ent on Tue 05 Jun, 2012 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

[sthughes]

Part of the reason for the non-mirror image is our little cave visit on the way up - hence the flat spot on the left. Where we stopped for lunch just after summiting also caused a flat spot where you wandered around a bit (or a least 2 of your GPS units did!).

I'd say we walked somewhere between 7.6 and 4.6km??!

The three with barometers (62s, Edge 305 & Funtrek 130) do look the goods, but despite the lack of data points the Etrex Venture HC also looks very good for elevation accuracy.

Yes Bit Map did kill Memory Map, and on the way down Memory Map was better positioned in my opinion!

[Ent]

Hi sthughes

Good point forgot about the little side trip on the way up. All my GPS were on the pack so stayed together but yes I did wander a bit but given that the total lunch area was five by five metres hopeful not that much! Also on distance the Garmin 62s will on the trip metre claim one figure but on the track claim another. Ok, this might be an example of string theory in action with the fewer points the less distance"travelled" recorded.

The Extrex I thought had a barometer but as it did not have one then remarkably good using satellite for altitude. In fact very impressive. It appears that if it gets a good view of the sky it can make full use of it, but not if under tree cover.

Bitmap versus Memory-Map is the hidden issue. People will buy whatever GPS that takes their fancy and then argue the merits of each until the cows come home but tend to think that all iPhones are equal. Well, not if the iPhone is running Bitmap or Memory-Map. Memory-Map performance is remarkably poor, especially given that I agree that my iPhone had the box seat next to the Garmin Edge 305 on the way down so Memory-Map had a chance to shine, but did not.

So barometer equipped are the
Garmin 62s
Edge 305
Holux FT130

So you would expect, given marketing hype, that they should perform strongly in this test. And yes they did. The Extrex rocked as well as did Bitmap but Memory-Map flunked out. Top job Nik. The next test will be battery life but sadly, the iPhone 4S are not identical, mine is 64GB and sthughes 8GB also sthughes’ never really recovered from submarine duty.

Cheers

Last edited by Ent on Tue 05 Jun, 2012 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[sthughes]

Just correcting your comment re the barometer on the Edge. It does have one. So barometer equipped are the
Garmin 62s
Edge 305
Holux FT130

Lol - I think you bedda get your reading glasses out and re-read my post - that's exactly what I said