River crossing techniques

Wed 12 Mar, 2014 8:29 pm

Just flipping through Youtube and came across this clip on river crossing techniques. Quite interesting. Also saw on other videos where multiple walkers would line side by side, arm over shoulders and cross together.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skOphU_7EoA

What do you all think of the techniques presented?

Wed 12 Mar, 2014 8:47 pm

Very interesting. Thanks for posting GPSGuided. I don't think you can go past the first technique (using a stick or walking pole). I think the second technique would be difficult for the person behind. The person in front would be disturbing the silt on the bottom of the river making it hard for the second person to see where they should be stepping (although maybe running water may clear it up quickly). The third technique looked very uncoordinated and they appeared to have more trouble than what they should.

Wed 12 Mar, 2014 9:02 pm

I think wayno will have great details on this - there are much more exciting river crossings in NZ than AU.

I think the row technique would be much more useful on larger braided rivers where you have a more homogeneous riverbed.

Wed 12 Mar, 2014 9:12 pm

I had some tips from our guide in Chile. We crossed waist high flooded streams. Do not place your hand through the strap on your pole. Always have your hand free. If it gets caught in between rocks, and the water is really strong it can lever you over, and break an arm, or worse a leg. You may lose a pole if it gets stuck and you fall, not your life.

Wed 12 Mar, 2014 9:51 pm

Yes - The New Zealanders can teach us a lot about river crossings. Really - river crossings is not really a problem in Australia. In my experience seldom do you come across a river in flood - that you cannot find a wide shallow spot or a place to swim across safely (even in winter it is not too bad swimming across)

The video - use of a third leg (stick) - yes a good idea if by yourself or an easy river to cross. The other techniques - no. Kiwi's use a technique called "mutual support" - which is kind of like techniques 2 and 3 - but quite different in practice. You should form a line - with the strongest person in the upstream position and the second strongest in the downstream position and the weakest people in the middle - and then put arms around shoulders . The upstream and downstream people can also use a stick or ice axe or ski pole to assist them. I have used this technique and it works well. Very well! I can remember a terrifying river in Patagonia that we crossed this way (with 6 of us linked together), and crossing flooded rives in NZ. But also very good advice - if too dangerous or is unsure - do not cross, wait.

For more information I suggest google - "FMC Bulletin river crossings" - (FMC for NZ Federation of Mountain Clubs) - and you will get very good discussion on different techniques. Kiwi's generally do not use rope to cross rivers (but in their latest bulletin - there is a letter from one advocate that does use rope - and he is very experienced and highly respected person in the outdoors community in NZ (although born in Tassie!)

Dave

Thu 13 Mar, 2014 7:40 am

The Mountaineering Council of Scotland have a couple of DVD's on the subject that cover several techniques.

http://www.mcofs.org.uk/water-hazards-dvd.asp

Probably similar to NZ in terms of the type and danger of crossings. Maybe even a little worse as they seem to get very high flows off the mountain from minimal rain. Rivers just seem to pop out of nowhere...

I have a copy of 'Water hazards in the mountains', happy to lend it around if anyone is interested.

Thu 13 Mar, 2014 7:45 am

Summary? Guess these thing can be categorised based on the number of walkers present.

Thu 13 Mar, 2014 9:11 am

New Zealand also produces a video - available on DVD. I think it is made by the NZ Mountain Safety Council. I can remember asking them about it and suggesting that they put it on youtube - to get the biggest audience - after all it is a matter of public safety. But it does not seem to be online. I Did find this one - which does show the NZ technique -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbyRiuVT4Ro

But - the river they cross is tiny in size and does not show its effectiveness fully. You really need to see people crossing a river full of glacial "flour" - where you cannot see how deep it is, with a raging torrent.

Dave

Thu 13 Mar, 2014 9:24 am

I saw on that "great crossing" show a while ago they used a technique where 1 walker ties a rope to themselves to cross while the other stays back in case any trouble, then when they are across same thing just hold the rope while the second walker crossed. Seemed a good technique

Thu 13 Mar, 2014 10:19 am

I was sent the attached river crossing (and river safety) notes from an outdoor education student. The explanations are good. Looks like they've sourced it from a NZ website. And the river in the pictures is much deeper than the river in that first video! :-)

Attachments

Student River Safety Notes.pdf: (615.66 KiB) Downloaded 701 times

Thu 13 Mar, 2014 12:13 pm

Thats a good info sheet SofB thanks for posting it.

Thu 13 Mar, 2014 4:17 pm

I guess the summary of it is, increasing one's (group) mass and increase contact points (using multiple legs), thereby improving balance.

Thu 13 Mar, 2014 5:37 pm

That Student River Safety pdf is the best short description I've seen and mirrors a practical river safety course I did in NZ. A photo from a Brisbane Bushwalkers group doing the Round the Mountain(s) track in NZ a few years ago, and using the crossing technique. We split the group into two as more than five in a row was too wide to find a route between boulders and holes.

: NZ2005lr 084.JPG (65.4 KiB) Viewed 18875 times

Crossing the river is only half what you need to consider. Just in case you do lose your footing: the river safety course placed heavy emphasis on how to recover from being swept down the river as described on page 9 of the pdf. The river where the course was held (near Manaia, Taranaki) fortunately had a 'safe' flow with minimum boulders.

Sat 15 Mar, 2014 2:26 pm

where do I begin?

heres the federated mountain clubs document davenoble refers to

http://www.fmc.org.nz/wp-content/upload ... 111215.pdf

but if you're going to be crossing difficult rivers you need to practice, preferably with people who really know what they are doing.
in nz you're often negotiating water courses with large boulders under the water which complicates trying to maintain your balance and coordination and stay on your feet

Sat 15 Mar, 2014 5:34 pm

note the use of ropes is controversial,
nz mountain safety council put out a statement regarding their stance on not approving teh method of river crossing

http://www.mountainsafety.org.nz/Files/ ... ec2011.pdf

Mon 17 Mar, 2014 9:33 am

get a packraft and go with it :-)

Mon 17 Mar, 2014 5:24 pm

wayno wrote:note the use of ropes is controversial...

Any rope method? Any type of crossing? In rescue?

Mon 17 Mar, 2014 5:30 pm

ropes can give a false sense of confidence that the rope is the solution to getting you across and is going to save your bacon if the crossing goes badly.
You dont want to tie yourself to a rope. if you fall, they can contribute to holding you under
rescuing is another topic... i wouldnt exclude ropes at all from rescue.
people who endorse ropes may have a lot of experience with them and be confident using them. using them is not for the inexperienced.

Mon 17 Mar, 2014 5:45 pm

How about a crossing using this kind of rope setup?

Mon 17 Mar, 2014 5:47 pm

i was refering to an article by the msc that refered to the techniques in the fmc document i originally refered to which only covered ropes attached to people crossing in the water

Mon 17 Mar, 2014 5:56 pm

This was the river we had to cross in Patagonia. We used the NZ technique - it worked (just).

: pat25.jpg (91.42 KiB) Viewed 18616 times

Mon 17 Mar, 2014 6:06 pm

theres a technique used by NZ hunters, not recommended at all.
if a river was flooded, some hunters would basically run down the river as best they could with the current heading for the opposite bank, it was a pretty hit and miss method, could succeed where other methods wouldnt but could also end in disaster if they lost their footing.

Mon 17 Mar, 2014 8:45 pm

wayno wrote:i was refering to an article by the msc that refered to the techniques in the fmc document i originally refered to which only covered ropes attached to people crossing in the water

Yes, can see how there are right and wrong ways to use the rope. It's a tool and it's a positive when used correctly and kills when not. Don't quite understand those who categorically rule the rope out.

Mon 17 Mar, 2014 9:15 pm

I have used the rope method to cross a rain heightened Mersey River at the "ford" at Pine Hut , sent the strongest adult across "tethered" who properly anchored the rope and then with two adults on each side of them "ferried " a dozen Scouts across one at a time, a long cold experience for the adults but a bit of fun for the boys.
So glad there is a bridge there now

corvus

River crossing techniques

Forum rules

River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques

Re: River crossing techniques