Camping fees for Victorian National Parks

[Lophophaps]

It's voting time in November.

Vote early and vote often. At state and federal levels the Liberal Party, supposedly the party of business and acumen, has lost the economic plot. Which is perhaps where they should go - in a plot. How about next to Maisies Patch, near Cope Hut fenced since the 1940s to show the effect of exclusion of grazing? I'd be quite happy to chip in for plaque. But would the overnight fee apply?

The fee schedule is quite prescriptive, with places excluded or not, seasonal charges, and variations depending on the nature of the accommodation. There's also a booking fee. This sort of booking fee and other extras is being considered by ACCC as a possible breach of consumer law. It would be fun if ACCC investigated the Victorian government... I think that the VG lies outside the remit of ACCC. Pity.

Unless the entire national park is designated a camping area, it seems fairly easy to avoid the placed cited in the fee schedule. I looked at a handful of places and for most of them found alternatives that are outside the fee paying areas. The sites on Falls-Hotham seem to cost $30/night plus a $10 booking fee. The schedule is unclear and a ripoff.

[Snowzone]

The Schedule is extremely confusing to follow and some of the fees are just outrageous. They impact the solo bushwalker in a big way, you could be paying up to $59.20 plus a booking fee just for pitching your tent on a non powered piece of ground.

I looked at a handful of places and for most of them found alternatives that are outside the fee paying areas.

This will become the norm I feel, most of us will just look for alternative bush campsites and in turn others will follow and instead of controlled areas there will end up being degradation over a wider area.
I'm really not sure how the government think this is going to possibly work and I pity the poor park rangers who will be on the front row trying to enforce these fees.

[Lophophaps]

The walker

Tune: The boxer

I am just a walker,
And my payment's never made.
I have fought the scrub's resistance,
For a pocket full of scroggin
Eat at nibble times.
I lie and rest,
Still a walker pays what he wants to pay
And thinks that none is best.

When I left my home
And my family,
A pack and a pair of boots
In the friendliness of strangers,
In the quiet of the valley floor,
Walking slow.
Camping low,
Seeking out the sites with no fees
Where the tired walkers go,
Looking for the places
Only they would know.

Lie-la-lie

Asking only to camp freely,
I come looking for a trip,
But the fees pursue me,
And the demand from the rules
Of the state parliament.
I do declare,
I will never pay your rip-off fees,
And my tent goes right here.

Lie-la-lie

Then I'm laying out evening clothes,
Want to stay here for weeks,
High fresh air,
With the city smog far away,
Isn't reaching me.
Leaching me,
Staying here.

In the clearing stands the walker,
Is a fighter by his stride,
And he carries the reminders,
Of every scrub that scraped his skin
And cut him till he cried out,
Determined to remain,
"I am staying, I am staying,
And this walker is not paying."

Lie-la-lie

[icefest]

Wow. This is almost on part with ollster's new river expedition log.

My appreciation to you!

[north-north-west]

The walker

Tune: The boxer

I am just a walker,
And my payment's never made.
I have fought the scrub's resistance,
For a pocket full of scroggin
Eat at nibble times.
I lie and rest,
Still a walker pays what he wants to pay
And thinks that none is best.

When I left my home
And my family,
A pack and a pair of boots
In the friendliness of strangers,
In the quiet of the valley floor,
Walking slow.
Camping low,
Seeking out the sites with no fees
Where the tired walkers go,
Looking for the places
Only they would know.

Lie-la-lie

Asking only to camp freely,
I come looking for a trip,
But the fees pursue me,
And the demand from the rules
Of the state parliament.
I do declare,
I will never pay your rip-off fees,
And my tent goes right here.

Lie-la-lie

Then I'm laying out evening clothes,
Want to stay here for weeks,
High fresh air,
With the city smog far away,
Isn't reaching me.
Leaching me,
Staying here.

In the clearing stands the walker,
Is a fighter by his stride,
And he carries the reminders,
Of every scrub that scraped his skin
And cut him till he cried out,
Determined to remain,
"I am staying, I am staying,
And this walker is not paying."

Lie-la-lie

Post Of The Year!!!!!!!!

[GBW]

Gets my vote for Post Of The Year, even though I've only been here 2 months!

[Out_Walking]

Well, it looks like the GSWW is off and running with the new 'user pays' system...

http://www.greatsouthwestwalk.com/track/Campsite%20fees.php

[icefest]

Well, it looks like the GSWW is off and running with the new 'user pays' system...

http://www.greatsouthwestwalk.com/track/Campsite%20fees.php

:'(

[north-north-west]

We need a massive program of planned civil disobedience.
I'm surprised the 4WD clubs aren't screaming about this - there are a lot of areas and campgrounds where they are the main users.

[ErichFromm]

We need a massive program of planned civil disobedience.

I'm in....

I have no problem paying a small amount to help parks vic or whomever make things better for everyone, but $120?

It says the cost is for a full circle and someone "using the 14 campsites" - does this mean you don't pay if you go off track a little? I'm fine with that - I took delivery of a hammock just yesterday so no longer subject to the tyranny of flat open spaces

If I'm paying a premium price for a campsite does that mean I can start lodging complaints that the grass is too long, the fireplaces too messy, or the hut not clean enough? I have expectations when I pay for something.....

[Travis22]

If they come up with an annual pass for a reasonable fee I'll buy it if not they can get stuffed.

Still nothing I can find about fee's in the ANP?

4wd clubs are / have been pretty vocal.

Travis.

[GBW]

If governments really want to promote healthy living and take some of the stress off the health system which costs millions each year, then they're going about it the wrong way.

[GBW]

Double post. Can I delete it?

[madmacca]

There are about 680 campgrounds in Victoria's parks and reserves, costing significant public funds to maintain and operate each year. These costs need to be recovered so that Victoria can continue to provide great visitor experiences in nature, with safe, modern campgrounds and facilities.

Now, if this is all they really mean to charge for, it's not entirely unwarranted nor unreasonable. But I wish them luck in trying to charge people for bushcamping when they're out walking. Will they try to hit up AAWT through-walkers with fees for each night they spend en route in Victoria?

NNW, the only entry for ANP is for the two designated campsites (Dibbins and Cope's Hut) on the Hotham-Falls crossing, which were already booking and charging fees for the platforms even before this policy came in.

[MartyGwynne]

Hello all.
I tried today to make an online booking but failed to be able to make it because I can't be sure of what I am booking!
So I sent off a few questions to Parks Vic.
Here is a copy of the questions....

Hi.

I am trying to book a boat accessible only camp site at Tamboon Inlet.
I have about 6 camp site to choose from but I can not seem to be able to find out where the camp sites are by a map.
All I get is a brief description which is very basic and unhelpful.

Can you send me a map which says where the sites are located?

Also if I get there and the site is taken, how do I get compensated for that?

If I get there and the site is taken by others can I camp else where?

If I get there and can’t camp for whatever reason (fire, flood, rain etc) and move onto another site how would I book, would I get compensated?

OK. If I get there and can’t camp for the above reasons and I can’t get any internet how do I go about booking? (I am not going to turn around and go home and re-book and then drive back again - 4-5 hour drive???)

Why can’t we still have the honesty system put back into place?

How could I check if a vacant camp site is booked if the one I booked is taken and the big hairy drunk bikies (for example) are not going to move for me when asked to do so - or I am too scared to ask?

If I book today can I drive up and assume my payment/booking is confirmed?

If I am Kayaking does this count as Boat camping?

If I would like to camp at the Choof Choof camp site how do I find that on the web site (I did a search and could not find it)?

Thanks for your help.

Martin Gwynne.

I wonder what sort of reply I would get.
Has anyone else had any experience of using the new booking system?
I sort of don't like it as it seems that at best you may get 50% of your fee back if you can cancel 30 days in advance but if for some other reason when you get there and can't camp at the designated spot you have lost the whole lot of your fee. This does not seem very fair.
Marty.

[Travis22]

We booked a site while doing Cape York a couple years ago and arrived to find someone in our spot, who had been there for 2 nights without paying.

Long story short, the ranger told the persons who were camping illegally - make sure you pay when you get home, and the ranger told us - just find somewhere to camp in the bus/ tour group area.

I was extremely upset at the situation and things very nearly got physical between myself and the bloke in our booked and payed for site. In the end we did as told and camped in the tour group area.

Upon returning home we lodged a complaint with who ever it is in charge over there (QLD), about 3-4 months later we received an apologetic reply saying they were sorry, the booking system is terrible and then knew it but the could not pursue the illegal camper in question (I sent them a picture of his vehicle) and all they could offer us was 1 nights free camping to the value of what we had paid valid for 12months anywhere in QLD... Which was utterly useless as we live in Vic and have no short term or long term plans to revisit QLD anytime soon.

Travis

[MartyGwynne]

Travis, that is quite a good response from a Gov dept, I would not expect very much from Parks Vic.
But yes I guess this is the sort of issue I am trying to find out about.
Sometimes when I get up there the conditions are not to my liking and I will move on to another place and pay accordingly via the honesty box system. Quite flexible and easy.
I have walked in the Nadgee Wilderness area a few times and it is always as per my shifts and weather permitting so sometimes only get to apply for permits at the last minute. I carry the application (online paper copy) with me as usually I find the permit posted to me via snail mail some weeks after I have returned home, payment is taken out the very day but the processing is dreadful. So I guess this would be even worse for a victorian department trying to administer a new rule.
But then the one lone ranger will be hard pressed to cover such a large area and make sure we all have a permit etc....

[sambar358]

Unfortunately we in Vic now have these new "user pays NP Regs" and I suspect that they will also be rolled-out in many locations on other non-NP public land when the hoo-haa from the current NP fees intro has subsided. Looking towards the up-coming November state elections as the quick fix for this is unrealistic if there is no undertaking from the current opposition to repeal these Regs should they get into power come November. So what individuals and interested groups/clubs/associations should be doing is lobbying their local state sitting members and any opposition party candidates telling them in no uncertain terms that you and a whole bunch of your friends & family are not impressed with this impost and if they fail to give an undertaking to reverse these regulations then your vote will go elsewhere !

It's quite likely that the Vic State Election will again be a close one and both major parties and all the independent candidates will be be seeking to look for issues to champion to set them aside from the rest. Even a couple of supportive independents elected who strongly support the view that these Regs are not in the best interest of the people could be enough to get them reversed as in reality all these Regs will do is either encourage otherwise law-abiding citizens to break the law as a form of protest or just not visit the NP's and use other non-levied public land instead. Either way these Regs therefore fail to achieve anything and just alienate the public with Parks Vic and by default the State government. So start emailing your local member and other candidates in your electorate, write a letter to the local paper, get on local radio and even meet face-to-face with some of the pollies who are standing for the November election and express you point of view on this. The bottom line is of course if they fail to heed the wishes of their electorate then they are out on their shiny a*&#* and none of them want that to happen ! Cheers

s358

Last edited by sambar358 on Mon 11 Aug, 2014 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Lophophaps]

But then the one lone ranger will be hard pressed to cover such a large area and make sure we all have a permit etc....

Amidst the seriousness of these dreadful regulations you have made me smile. I have a vision of a masked man on a horse with his faithful indian companion Tonto, fighting the forces of evil in our parks. Yes, it's the Lone Ranger. Hi ho Silver, away!

[Snowzone]

I have to make a booking for the Little Desert Park this week sometime, I'm not looking forward to navigating the booking system or handing the dollars over.
What I'm finding really sad is seeing empty campgrounds that used to have campers enjoying the 'great outdoors' now sitting idol. I've been up to Middle Creek a couple of times early on Sunday mornings recently and there is no-one camping here anymore. There used to always be people using this campground. Not only that but there is tape across a couple of the camp sites saying they are no longer in use. Perfectly good sites with fire places and picnic tables closed off for no reason that I can see except it didn't suit their booking system.

[wayno]

in nz DOC decided to hike fees to one of their major bird sanctuaries on kapiti island, which had been very popular...
overnight they just killed off the popularity, priced themselves out of the market...
in this day and age theres plenty of research to show the physical and mental health benefits of being able to get away from it all and stay in the outdoors... whats the point of putting people off with charges they can't or won't pay. it may be the difference fo some people between having any holiday or no holiday, or they just resign themselves to camping grounds in the cities and have to forego staying in nature with their families

[MartyGwynne]

Wayno, so true the mental health part of getting away I do it every couple of months just to be by myself and wind down.
Now it's going to take longer as I have to face the task of online booking and huge increase in fees etc, urghhh I need to get away just thinking about it.
Still no reply from parksvic (possibly a bit to early to expect a reply just yet).

[dplanet]

theres plenty of research to show the physical and mental health benefits of being able to get away from it all and stay in the outdoors.

so true the mental health part of getting away I do it just to wind down.

Sorry for a bit of OT. Today sad news of a well-known actor died at 63 due to his long time battle with depression. Good on you Marty. Get out more.
Regarding campsite booking, unlike you, I just pack and go. Just choose places, where the bookings are not required.
A short video UTube of "Getting out there" is uploaded and use the link if interested http://youtu.be/0dkeu38iwN8

[CaptainC]

For those talking about the next election, the ALP's views are here https://www.viclabor.com.au/media-relea ... k-charges/ and the Greens views are here http://vicmps.greens.org.au/content/lib ... onal-parks

[Tortoise]

Edit

[icefest]

For those talking about the next election, the ALP's views are here https://www.viclabor.com.au/media-relea ... k-charges/ and the Greens views are here http://vicmps.greens.org.au/content/lib ... onal-parks

Don't bother reading the labor one - no useful content other than trashtalking current decisions.
Greens have a bit more of a plan and suggest how they're combating the changes.

[MartyGwynne]

I do have it from a trustworthy source that the 4WD groups are formulating their lobbying of the gov etc. so this hopefully will get some common sense placed back into the booking system once all groups have put their stance to the gov.
Hmmmm still no reply from parks Vic yet. (I guess I could have just gone and camped and be back home again without even any one knowing - least of all the Lone Ranger)

[Snowzone]

Well I have negotiated the booking system. The cost has ended up different to what was in the schedule I downloaded. What I'm really unsure about is that I am doing 3 nights in the Little Desert and have only been able to book for two of the three campgrounds, the 3rd didn't appear to have a fee attached to it. But from what I have seen lately all of the permit camps you have to have a permit to even park your car there overnight. So I guess I'm covered for two nights but I'm not sure how I go about running back and moving my car for the third night (which of course I'm not going to do from 20km away).

[Moondog55]

I just looked at the "System" $34- to camp at an unpowered site in the Brisbane Range NP??? For that price I want hot and cold running water/showers and water I can drink LOL
But no mention of paying to camp at the horseyards at Pretty Valley so I guess I'm safe for next years skiing.

[bmak]

Being local i noticed in the past it was rare to find the place empty and when i decided to look at the fees i now know why it is these days.
Those closed sites maybe water logged and i guess with the place hardly being used they are letting them dry out.

I camp in the area at least few times a year but i don't mind moving north to the forest managed by DSE to avoid parks vic fees.

I don't mind paying but not $34 for Middle creek type facilities.

I have to make a booking for the Little Desert Park this week sometime, I'm not looking forward to navigating the booking system or handing the dollars over.
What I'm finding really sad is seeing empty campgrounds that used to have campers enjoying the 'great outdoors' now sitting idol. I've been up to Middle Creek a couple of times early on Sunday mornings recently and there is no-one camping here anymore. There used to always be people using this campground. Not only that but there is tape across a couple of the camp sites saying they are no longer in use. Perfectly good sites with fire places and picnic tables closed off for no reason that I can see except it didn't suit their booking system.