Rain Jackets

[woka]

Yes, you'll be here, but it's a long weekend and we're all going away. That's right. All of us.

We'll leave the porch light on for you and the key under the mat.

[blacksheep]

have a nice weekend. (I remember weekends... )
perhaps leave a slice of fruitcake out too?

[woka]

Scroggin and a mug of powdered milk perhaps?!

[scubabob]

i've read just about every post on this subject here and there is a lot of talk about "why would you consider upgrading" and "why buy a new jacket". There are poeple like me who have not been into hiking long and as such are still building up their kit. i tend to do this as a more or less cooler weather pasttime (keep the hot weather for diving) and as such do not yet have any real wet weather gear. It is for this reason i am seeking all the info i can so that what little dollars i have left to play with will go towards something that is going to keep me dry. thats the crux of the matter. At the end of the day, no matter what it costs, what its made of, what the hype says, if it doesnt keep you dry then its a waste of everything, but if it does, its worth everything.

i guess its like cars, everyone has there own likes and dislikes and not every product is going to suit everybody. i am just after some basic info as to what to look for and what materials and styles are really needed. i just want to keep dry and comfy

[corvus]

scubabob,
Do you want fulllength jacket like we favour in Tassie or a bum freezer style to use with overpants.
c

[scubabob]

This is it corvus, i have no idea. i dont know what people generally wear in the rain. the plan is to wear something that will still allow me to wear the full backpack and still walk comfortably. i am after any advice i can get, long, short, mullet or straight cut, this material, that material. It was easier to buy my house!

[geoskid]

Hahaha, Hi Scubabob, - I can relate!
I have the Marmot Precip jacket and pants and like them. Have not used them on untracked walks yet so cant talk about that, but on tracked walks they are perfectly adequate and lightweight. In a comfortable temperature I have walked in misty rain and not bothered putting them on. Unless I were walking in areas where I cant drop my pack and pitch a tent where I am if necessary, I dont feel the need to upgrade.
Cheers, Geoskid

[corvus]

This is it corvus, i have no idea. i dont know what people generally wear in the rain. the plan is to wear something that will still allow me to wear the full backpack and still walk comfortably. i am after any advice i can get, long, short, mullet or straight cut, this material, that material. It was easier to buy my house!

You will need to decide which style you want, my personal choice is for full length (down to near knee) Gortex Paddy Palin brand as I walk in shorts and like to keep them as dry as possible there are other fabrics available in full length jackets Chamelon by Wilderness Wear is another I have experience of and like , both are really good and I would rate the Gortex one better for long term use in scrubby conditions but the Chamelon is lighter.
With Kevins bonus you could just about afford both
c

[blacksheep]

did anyone from here come along? didn't see any fruitcake ....
met some good Tassie folks that really use gear the way it oughta be used...good visit

[jules78]

Hi Blacksheep / anyone else in the know

What are the actual weights of the new macpac eVent jackets? I find it a bit frustrating that the macpac website lists the weights for the older model jackets, but not the new ones, and I can't find this info anywhere else. Makes it hard to compare the macpac jackets with other brands.

[blacksheep]

Hi Blacksheep / anyone else in the know

What are the actual weights of the new macpac eVent jackets? I find it a bit frustrating that the macpac website lists the weights for the older model jackets, but not the new ones, and I can't find this info anywhere else. Makes it hard to compare the macpac jackets with other brands.

from memory traverse is 415gm, prophet is 595gm and resolution id 545gm (based on men's large)
i too am frustrated with the web content not answering FAQ's...on to it...

[johnw]

Having just being rained on almost continuously for 3 weeks in Tasmania, and getting wet more from the inside than out, yesterday I finally bit the bullet and bought a gore-tex jacket and overpants. A fathers day present to myself I guess. There are many spring sales now on so it was cheaper than expected, though still outrageously expensive. After having done much investigation and self-analysis about what I wanted over the past few months, I settled on the Pallin Neo Vista jacket. Bought for $384 which was 40% discount from usual RRP of $550.

I looked at several alternatives discussed on BWT including the Mont Hydronaut models (strong contender) and the new Macpac Event jackets. I decided that I really wanted a robust, long (ie 3/4 length) bushwalking-specific jacket to enable walking with shorts/gaiters combinaton. It also had to have a very well integrated hood with a broad stiffened peak,design to minimise water ingress from the perimeter. I went with the Vista as it had all of that and some other features that I liked. It also seems to have had a good reputation over the years with few complaints. Comments I've read usually relate to fair wear and tear issues or not following the correct maintenance instructions. The Mont Austral would have been my next choice, just that I've read more negatives about Mont jackets from long term owners than for the Vista. The Macpac Event jackets are nice, but not long enough for my needs. I mainly considered the Resolution in the Macpac range.

I spontaneously decided to also buy some gore-tex overpants. I bought the Berghaus Paclite version. My son already has these and recently used them on the same Tasmanian visit in some fairly testing conditions. He told me that they worked well and far better than anything else he'd tried. We've both used cheaper Rainbird gear or similar in the past, although he's had one of the ultralight Montane jackets for a while and that seems to work well. New overpants hadn't really been on the agenda but these are usually $280 and were on sale at half-price. So for $140 impulse got the better of me (and I'd already seen them perform in the field). They're very lightweight, unzip to almost waist level, and are double-zipped, so can be vented if necessary.

Of course now that I have these items it's really just insurance, as it won't rain for another 18 months!

[photohiker]

Has anyone here ever seen Paramo directional clothing? It seems to have quite a following in the UK, but I've never heard of it before it cropped up whilst researching the TGO Challenge. It's somehow connected with NikWax, but not exactly sure of the details.

There's a jacket called 3rd Element with removable arms and hood that has won favour with some of the TGO Crowd.

[north-north-west]

I looked at several alternatives discussed on BWT including the Mont Hydronaut models (strong contender)...

I'm not impressed by Hydronaut overgear. It's light, but I've had leakage problems with both pairs of pants. I love my Mont sleeping bag, and like the look of a lot of their other bits and pieces, but I'm not ever again touching their wet-weather clothing.

I spontaneously decided to also buy some gore-tex overpants.

Oddly enough, so did I. Less than half price from the MD outlet in Traralgon ($200, down from $430). Ski pants rather than bushwalking gear, but brilliantly engineered and too good a deal to pass up. And given one of the other bits of gear I've just purchased, snowpants seemed a good idea.

[Ent]

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[Nuts]

Have you tried quick dry long pants, I have a pair of Montane (tactel) that are very tough and dont wick at all, never get wet above the 'treeline' I imagine that the shorter jackets are more popular on a wordwide scale. Afterall, who else makes a habit of wearing shorts bushwalking hiking? Go the mullet- Youll never go back... BTW I use Marmot Oracle pants, great value, reinforced knees etc. and come with braces. They aren't gore but have good ventilation (full length zips) and a very light. Can be had for u$100 on sale..

[Ent]

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[Nuts]

Brett, if you mean the Montane pants, I bought my last pair through ebay seller (UK) I'll try to find the seller thou it was now a while back (abt $110au) They only go to 33''? I imagine other brands have similar? From memory they have a teflon plated butt . Just have had really good wear from the montanes is all, wear them right thru summer also. I dont often bother with gaiters (on good tracks), just clip the bottom hems and socks over.

[corvus]

[





The Goretex pants were the surprise packet. Wore them straight over long woollen thermals in the snow for two days and they kept me dry, warm, and breathed magnificently. Was dreading the morning thinking I would be putting in wet pants but found them still dry inside. For serious snow work they are the way to go but still would avoid wearing them in warmer weather. Only problem is they were hard to keep up when then waist thinned down on the walk. Why, and and mean seriously why do manufacturers not provide braces or even provision for them????????????? And yes, a trek of all the bushwalking shops on Monday after the walk revealed non had braces. Shame, shame and more shame on them as this shows they have no idea of the issue which incidentally is not just my rantings Ok Allgoods had business grade braces and the nice lady in menswear directed me to Stihl which I found after not finding any braces at other safety stores and the nice young man removed $55.00 from me for something that is suppose to hold up pants in difficult conditions rather than just in the office. When I use them I will report back. One thing, in bright fluro orange they could put a PLB out of business.





Cheers Brett

Brett,
You can get them with attached braces
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Brand-New-Men-3l ... 285QQcmdZV
c

[alliecat]

Brett, if you mean the Montane pants, I bought my last pair through ebay seller (UK) I'll try to find the seller thou it was now a while back (abt $110au) They only go to 33''? I imagine other brands have similar? From memory they have a teflon plated butt . Just have had really good wear from the montanes is all, wear them right thru summer also. I dont often bother with gaiters (on good tracks), just clip the bottom hems and socks over.

I reckon the ebay seller was "Agoraphilia outdoor gear" - I've bought Montane stuff from them on ebay too. Very reasonable prices and realistic postage (unlike a lot of ebay sellers...). Just searching for montane on ebay will probably bring them up first.

[alliecat]

Has anyone here ever seen Paramo directional clothing? It seems to have quite a following in the UK, but I've never heard of it before it cropped up whilst researching the TGO Challenge. It's somehow connected with NikWax, but not exactly sure of the details.

There's a jacket called 3rd Element with removable arms and hood that has won favour with some of the TGO Crowd.

Hi photohiker,

I haven't got (or even seen!) any Paramo gear, but I would love to get some one day. I've done a lot of research and reading about their stuff on the net and chatted online to a couple of guys in the UK who use it. It seems that nearly everybody who uses Paramo really loves it.

The main complaints from people seem to be:

• The styling can be a bit baggy (or daggy depending on your point of view)
• Some of the colours are a bit "odd"
• Price - they ain't cheap!
• Warmth - the lightest Paramo jacket (Velez Adventure Light) is probably equivalent to a 100 weight fleece + windshirt, so could get pretty warm going fast uphill or in warmer weather.

Having said that, the prices really aren't that bad compared to Gore-Tex and eVent, and the garments seem to last people for many years, so they are probably good value in the long term. Also, good venting is a feature of most of their jackets, so the warmth issue is probably not as bad, although they might still be too warm for the lowlands of Tassie (eg. South Coast Track) in summer. For those that like their coats long, they have nice thigh-length style jackets. One really nice thing for Tassie conditions is that the fabric is not a "membrane" and doesn't stop working if it gets punctured. So scoparia and friends will not affect the functionality of Paramo gear. That's one of the reasons I want some.

The founder and owner of Paramo is the same guy who founded NikWax, and the NikWax DWR treatment is an essential part of how the Paramo waterproofing works. But maintaining a good DWR treatment is an essential (and often neglected) part of WPB fabrics like GoreTex and eVent too, so I don't see that as a negative.

If you don't like the Paramo styles, there is a small company that makes custom-fitted waterproof clothes (again - not cheap) using the Paramo fabrics. And there is another compnay, Furtech, that makes clothes under license from Paramo.

If you splash out on some Paramo gear, please post a review here, as I'd love to hear how it goes in Tassie conditions.

cheers,
Alliecat

[Nuts]

(Arrr... Yes A/cat, that was it: Montane Pants- http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MONTANE-TERRA-PA ... 4348wt_955 )

[johnw]

, I settled on the Pallin Neo Vista jacket. Bought for $384 which was 40% discount from usual RRP of $550.

Green and very green with envy rather than with the folding stuff as I paid near full price (less 10% PP discount over $549)...

Hi Brett, Yes I was very pleased with the price I paid, compared with the usual .

My pet wish is for a proper knee length rain jacket...now to the Visa jacket...Being tall the jacket is more high thigh length so I am forced to either accept wet shorts or wear waterproof pants.

I have the opposite problem, being a bit of a short*rse at around 165-170 cm. Size S was the ideal fit and is knee-length on me. I also tried on size M which I could almost use as a tent, but the length seemed identical (maybe length increases disproportionately with other sizing? ). I often find that the sleeves or legs in any clothing are miles too long.

The jacket apart from the rather tight and restrictive hood proved to be brilliant in heavy rain and recently snow and appears tough enough to survive the occasional stability problems. The large front chest pockets are very usable even when wearing a pack. The hand pockets get blocked by the pack harness due to the relatively shorter length on me but with pre planing you can just get around this. The breathability is far better than any of the alternative fabrics I have tried...I would replace it tomorrow if it got stolen...

The hood fitment seems fine for me but maybe tall is again disadvantaged in sizing. I like the pocket arrangements and looks like they should work well with a pack for me. All else good to hear .

The Goretex pants ...Only problem is they were hard to keep up when then waist thinned down on the walk. Why, and and mean seriously why do manufacturers not provide braces or even provision for them...

No elasticised drawcord or similar at least? The ones I bought have that as with any other rain paints I own.

[Ent]

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[photohiker]

Has anyone here ever seen Paramo directional clothing? It seems to have quite a following in the UK, but I've never heard of it before it cropped up whilst researching the TGO Challenge. It's somehow connected with NikWax, but not exactly sure of the details.

There's a jacket called 3rd Element with removable arms and hood that has won favour with some of the TGO Crowd.

Hi photohiker,

I haven't got (or even seen!) any Paramo gear, but I would love to get some one day. I've done a lot of research and reading about their stuff on the net and chatted online to a couple of guys in the UK who use it. It seems that nearly everybody who uses Paramo really loves it.

The main complaints from people seem to be:

• The styling can be a bit baggy (or daggy depending on your point of view)
• Some of the colours are a bit "odd"
• Price - they ain't cheap!
• Warmth - the lightest Paramo jacket (Velez Adventure Light) is probably equivalent to a 100 weight fleece + windshirt, so could get pretty warm going fast uphill or in warmer weather.

Having said that, the prices really aren't that bad compared to Gore-Tex and eVent, and the garments seem to last people for many years, so they are probably good value in the long term. Also, good venting is a feature of most of their jackets, so the warmth issue is probably not as bad, although they might still be too warm for the lowlands of Tassie (eg. South Coast Track) in summer. For those that like their coats long, they have nice thigh-length style jackets. One really nice thing for Tassie conditions is that the fabric is not a "membrane" and doesn't stop working if it gets punctured. So scoparia and friends will not affect the functionality of Paramo gear. That's one of the reasons I want some.

The founder and owner of Paramo is the same guy who founded NikWax, and the NikWax DWR treatment is an essential part of how the Paramo waterproofing works. But maintaining a good DWR treatment is an essential (and often neglected) part of WPB fabrics like GoreTex and eVent too, so I don't see that as a negative.

If you don't like the Paramo styles, there is a small company that makes custom-fitted waterproof clothes (again - not cheap) using the Paramo fabrics. And there is another compnay, Furtech, that makes clothes under license from Paramo.

If you splash out on some Paramo gear, please post a review here, as I'd love to hear how it goes in Tassie conditions.

cheers,
Alliecat

Well, I've placed the order. Sizing is a bit of an issue, as they tend to have their own ideas apparently, but I found an online store willing to help me through the mire, and also ready to exchange if things don't fit as expected. Freight is an issue of course for returns, but the VAT comes off and is about equal to the freight to me, so that's a nice present from the UK Govt.

I've decided on the 3rd Element Jacket, and the Velez Adventure Light trousers. In cool weather here in Aus, I often land up hiking in a windproof vest, and the 3rd Element has a somewhat quirky removable arms/top that when removes leaves a 'Gilet' (vest). Price for both is less than I expected - about $500 all up, and like you say, quite comparable to locally bought goretex. Weight remains to be seen, but the labels say 398g for the trousers, and 765g for the jacket. This is not that much more than my Hydronaut jacket.

These seem to be better fitted designs than some of the others from Paramo. For example, the 'Cascada' Jacket and Trousers seem to be quite shapeless with elastic waists etc. The Velez are a very new design and they actually sell them in waist sizing. We'll see when they get here

Colour selection is dismal, but this is no fashion parade. I've gone for black, as the option was Red or bright Red and I just ain't a red kind of dude

Michael

[alliecat]

Fantastic Michael - good on you for being a test bunny for Paramo in Aus. Really look forward to hearing how it goes for you, especially how hot you find it.

The VAT "discount" is always a nice surprise

Cheers,
Alliecat

[photohiker]

Actually, I'm sure it will be too hot to test it properly when it arrives, but hopefully we will have some cool weather in march/april. I'll be using it in it's native land in May. After that I'll be sure to give it a workout in the Aussie Winter, including a trip to the snow (hopefully GW won't have stolen it)

Michael

[pinarello]

hi,

how would you solve the rain jacket issue if you already have a winter cycling jacket (which is a bit like a soft shell jacket and it's outer layer is made of a fabric called 'wind tex')?

therefore i am just looking for protection from the rain (aren't we all) since warmth is already given by the cycling gear. now, if i work my way through theses posts i wonder if those suggested solutions are not all too warm? hence, i am thinking of one of those cheapish transparent cycling rain jackets (which is gonna be way too warm as well, at lesser cost though) which seem to be robust enough to carry a pack.

any thoughts?
thanks petra

[Ent]

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[pinarello]

hi
i am gonna rephrase my question, sort of giving up on the cycling jacket: the local macpac shop has 'aspiring' jackets, the 2007 models, on sale for $150,-.

What are your thoughts? Bargain or crappy jacket?

thanks petra