S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby Sandbars » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 8:10 am

Alittleruff wrote:OMGolly Gosh! N-NW.... I must have been looking at American prices, on campsaver.com. Because when I looked if they can send to Australia I found out that they can't. To describe the price difference from US- AUS as excessive would be too mild a term.

I wonder who actually can sell them into Australia. Might be worth a look see.


You can buy from Campsaver - and get it sent (free) to someone like shipitto, who will then re-pack and forward to Australia. However... if you have any warranty issues you need to send it back to US - AND pay for it to be re-sent here. I took this risk when the dollar was good, and I bought with others. (I think between us, we spent about $2k, which would have been $3k in Aus). Now, for a couple of items, I am not sure it would be worth the risk.

Snowy's and WildEarth seem to be matching each other for prices on a lot of stuff, and they both have free shipping, and I have had great customer service from both.

Also: think about price v's value. The Kathmandu mats seem cheaper at $50 each - however, given that you had one night before you thought about replacing them, at $50 an uncomfortable night they seem poor value. My neo-air gave me over 100 nights before being relegated to second fiddle - $200 upfront, $2 a night = good value.
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby north-north-west » Sat 28 Nov, 2015 10:10 am

Sandbars wrote:Also: think about price v's value. The Kathmandu mats seem cheaper at $50 each - however, given that you had one night before you thought about replacing them, at $50 an uncomfortable night they seem poor value. My neo-air gave me over 100 nights before being relegated to second fiddle - $200 upfront, $2 a night = good value.

My NeoAir AllSeason has done more than that and is still going strong. Well worth what it cost me.
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby paul_gee » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:56 am

Hiking Noob wrote:I had a pretty good look around the web and the S2S mat from Wild Earth looks like the best price, others had the same price but you had to pay post.


Thanks for spotting that Hiking Noob. As you may know, Snowys is committed to offering the cheapest online prices in Australia. I did a bit of poking around and could see that we were cheaper on all bar the Ultralight Insulated. I just got onto our purchasing / pricing guys and we have updated our price ($134.90 for the regular, $154.90 for the large) so they are in line with the rest of the range.

tl;dr - We're cheaper. ;)
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby paul_gee » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 10:58 am

Sandbars wrote:
Alittleruff wrote:Snowy's and Wild Earth seem to be matching each other for prices on a lot of stuff, and they both have free shipping, and I have had great customer service from both.


Glad to hear it. ;)
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby Alittleruff » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 11:29 am

Are you part of Snowy's paul_gee?

I have to say, I hadn't heard of snowy's until I started looking at Bushwalk.com.

Still thinking of upgrading our mats. S2S UL insulated or maybe the Thermorest x-lite ?
Crikey... I dunno.

While the Thermorest neoair x-lite, comes out on top for weight, warmth... but has a hefty price tag.
The next thing close to the same weight is the S2S UL... but offers no insulation and is a little cheaper.
The S2s UL insulated, then has 100g more weight. Same warmth value as the thermorest neo air... less cost. Pushing into the same weight territory as a self inflatable 3/4 mat though.

Thinking for bang for your buck the S2S UL insulated is probably a good buy. But I'd so like to test one out before I buy.... it's hard to do this when I don't live in the city. No shops sell any of these mats around here.

Want to hear about doggy? Kathmandu. http://www.kathmandu.com.au/sleeping-ge ... unset.html
They had a chart up, that suggested this was a winter mat. R value listed as N/A. Really plasticy. The weight... 850g. And an inbuilt pump. Really, not what I want. But, I imagine if someone thought that they were going snow camping and needed something to stay warm, they might buy this. :(. Not impressed. I let the staff know, hopefully they can resolve the issue.

Taking my son out camping this weekend. It would have been great to try out new mats. Oh well.
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby South_Aussie_Hiker » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 12:31 pm

It's good to see Snowy's really stepping up to compete with the online sales heavyweights.

It's the way all of these businesses will need to go in the future just to survive. Plus the roadworks can't be helping getting people in the door.

My fanily have always received excellent after sales service from there.

Much more reputable and family oriented stores like these will always get my support, unlike the big chain stores like anaconda and crapmandu, which either sell cheap junk, or have huge markups and continual fake "80% off" sales - or both.
Last edited by South_Aussie_Hiker on Tue 01 Dec, 2015 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby paul_gee » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 12:34 pm

Are you part of Snowy's paul_gee?


Sure am, Alittleruff. I work in the online team. Hope my contibutions here are seen as helpful by ya'll and the mods. (The way I see it is that I have a shop full of stuff at my disposal, much of it I have used personally. If we have it in stock and anybody has ANY questions, I can pretty swifty answer them.)

Glad to have introduced you to Snowys here. :)

The S2s UL insulated, then has 100g more weight. Same warmth value as the thermorest neo air... less cost. Pushing into the same weight territory as a self inflatable 3/4 mat though
.

The key feature, as others have said, with the S2S ULI is comfort. That's really what S2S have aimed at with this range, without too much of a hit to weight, size, and warth.

Thinking for bang for your buck the S2S UL insulated is probably a good buy. But I'd so like to test one out before I buy.... it's hard to do this when I don't live in the city. No shops sell any of these mats around here.


Teleportion product sampling. We aim to lead the way in it someday. (Heh!)

That said, we want our customers to be completely satisfied with their purchase. If you were to buy one, have a lay on it, and didn't like it. Provided you covered return postage (it would probably cost more in time and fuel to drive to see one?) and ensured the mat got back to us in tip top, schmick, perfect, resellable condition (this is the key) we could probably arrange an exchange or refund.

They had a chart up, that suggested this was a winter mat. R value listed as N/A. Really plasticy. The weight... 850g. And an inbuilt pump. Really, not what I want. But, I imagine if someone thought that they were going snow camping and needed something to stay warm, they might buy this. :(. Not impressed. I let the staff know, hopefully they can resolve the issue.


That's a bit of a worry. We're currently working on a blog that aims to be a 'Complete Guide to Sleeping Mats' to help people make the right choice, and hopefully to prevent them being lead astray like this. Knowledge is power and all that!

Taking my son out camping this weekend. It would have been great to try out new mats. Oh well.


Where you headed? :) If you were to grab an ULI, you might just get it in time. (Might. You're in rural VIC, right?)
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby paul_gee » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 12:44 pm

South_Aussie_Hiker wrote:It's good to see Snowy's really stepping up to compete with the online sales heavyweights.

It's the way all of these businesses will need to go in the future just to survive. Plus the roadworks can't be helping getting people in the door.

My family have always received excellent after sales service from there.

Much more reputable and family oriented stores like these will always get my support, unlike the big chain stores like anaconda and crapmandu, which either sell cheap junk, or have huge markups and continual fake "80% off" sales - or both.


N'aww, thanks South_Aussie_Hiker! It's pretty ambitious of us to offer things like lowest prices, free delivery AND great customer service but hey, we're a pretty ambitious bunch. Glad you've had a great time with us.

The road works. Ohhhhh, the road works. Surprisingly, the hit hasn't been that big. What can I say, people will still park a block away to see us. ;)
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby Alittleruff » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 4:06 pm

OMgolly gosh. Just tried to roll up my Kathmandu mats and chuck one in a pack, to see how much weight losses overall I've made to my overall pack weight. What can I say about the Kathmandu mats... NOTHING good right now. Not only did the valves play up and they are a pain in the butt to roll up, they are so bulky and I don't trust the valves much at all. They could literally just let air in while they are packed in your bag!

I've cared for these mats. I've stored them inflated behind the couch for a year. They have been babied, and they give me grief and frustration in return.

I had a thought, maybe a closed cell mat that is BOMB proof and doesn't need to be babied might work well. Or the less bulky S2S UL insulated might be the way to go. At least I can store them flat.

I think Snowys might have a new customer. Going to have another browse. Thanks Paul_gee. I'm sure you have better after sales care than Kathmandu.
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby Alittleruff » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 4:32 pm

Just ordered a couple of S2S Mats! Snowys got our business. Fingers and toes crossed they arrive by the weekend.
................ Have to hide the purchase from DH!
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby Moondog55 » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 4:50 pm

Here's another question
If I wanted to save pack weight for any summer camping I [may] do and wanted to buy a new smaller mat is there any real advantage going to the comfort lite insulated short over the comfort plus short uninsulated?
The uninsulated comfort plus short is rated at R-2.5 ( I thought it was R-3) and 540 grams
Balance this against the comfort lite short at R-4.2 and 550 grams insulated and R1 and 430 grams uninsulated

Or is R-1 going to be enough for summer and I cut my mat weight to 430 grams and carry a CCF in cooler temps which would add more than the saved 110 grams?
Is the comfort lite as comfortable as the comfort plus??? Is it as fail safe???
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby paul_gee » Tue 01 Dec, 2015 5:37 pm

Just ordered a couple of S2S Mats! Snowys got our business. Fingers and toes crossed they arrive by the weekend.
................ Have to hide the purchase from DH!


Awesome. Thanks so much! Hope it gets to you nice and quick.

Here's another question
If I wanted to save pack weight for any summer camping I [may] do and wanted to buy a new smaller mat is there any real advantage going to the comfort lite insulated short over the comfort plus short uninsulated?
The uninsulated comfort plus short is rated at R-2.5 ( I thought it was R-3) and 540 grams
Balance this against the comfort lite short at R-4.2 and 550 grams insulated and R1 and 430 grams uninsulated

Or is R-1 going to be enough for summer and I cut my mat weight to 430 grams and carry a CCF in cooler temps which would add more than the saved 110 grams?
Is the comfort lite as comfortable as the comfort plus??? Is it as fail safe???


I'm just about to leave the store for the day. Will see if I can answer your questions in the morn' - unless others beat me to it! :)
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby paul_gee » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 9:14 am

Moondog55 wrote:Here's another question
If I wanted to save pack weight for any summer camping I [may] do and wanted to buy a new smaller mat is there any real advantage going to the comfort lite insulated short over the comfort plus short uninsulated?
The uninsulated comfort plus short is rated at R-2.5 ( I thought it was R-3) and 540 grams
Balance this against the comfort lite short at R-4.2 and 550 grams insulated and R1 and 430 grams uninsulated

Or is R-1 going to be enough for summer and I cut my mat weight to 430 grams and carry a CCF in cooler temps which would add more than the saved 110 grams?
Is the comfort lite as comfortable as the comfort plus??? Is it as fail safe???


Firstly, the Comfort Plus (uninsulated) is definitely rated R 2.5, according to the S2S 2015 catelogue and their website.

Right, onto your questions:

R-value for summer camping - Insulation is relevant to any season because, at the end of the day, it's about reducing temperature transfer. If you're sleeping on warm ground the R-value of your mat won't cool you down, but it will insulate against the temperature of the ground. The higher the R-value, the better the insulation. That said, in most mild summer camping conditions, how big a foe is the ground? :P

Comfort - The uninsulated mats in the S2S don't feature the Exkin Platnum or THERMOLITE insulation (got to love the jargon, right?) that the Insulated mats do. That said, these materials don't really play on the comfort of the mats - they are there for insulation purposes only.

Comfort difference between the Light and the Plus - The main difference with the Light is that it incorporates both double layer and single layer cells. Double layer through the torso for more comfort and warmth, and single layer at the head and feet where that is less important. This is to reduce weight. The Plus has double layer cells the entire length and two values that inflate independent layers of cells so you can vary pressure to suit your sleeping requirements and, as you say, a safe guard if you're unfortunate enough to get a puncture. On that, S2S have done well by including decent 3M® repair kits with the range - none your typical crappy generic type.

Hope that helps. Any more questions, feel free to fire 'em my way.
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 9:33 am

Having put your weight on both is there any comfort difference between the two?
So far I am leaning to the double layer in uninsulated, as much for the fail safe but R2.5 is also a reasonable level for non snow sleeping [ also I have to say I almost always carry a thin 8mm CCF mat for protection anyway] so I am really interested in hearing from anybody that has used the uninsulated comfort+ for more than a few days.
Also of course in hearing from those who went the UL route who can comment
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby paul_gee » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 9:46 am

Moondog55 wrote:Having put your weight on both is there any comfort difference between the two?
So far I am leaning to the double layer in uninsulated, as much for the fail safe but R2.5 is also a reasonable level for non snow sleeping [ also I have to say I almost always carry a thin 8mm CCF mat for protection anyway] so I am really interested in hearing from anybody that has used the uninsulated comfort+ for more than a few days.
Also of course in hearing from those who went the UL route who can comment


Just had a wee lie down on the Plus and Light for you. Laying flat and on my side, I noticed little difference between the two. Save the fact that with the Plus you can vary the firmness more due to the two independent layers of cells. Both are seriously comfy. The one difference I noticed was that the Light gave away a little more when I sat up than the Plus.
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby Moondog55 » Wed 02 Dec, 2015 10:16 am

Well a C+ short is half the weight of my winter mat
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby paul_gee » Thu 03 Dec, 2015 8:37 am

Well a C+ short is half the weight of my winter mat.


Decision made, then? :P
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby Moondog55 » Thu 03 Dec, 2015 9:19 am

It will have to wait until I completely pay for the winter tho Paul. Skiing is very expensive even if I'm camping out
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby Alittleruff » Fri 04 Dec, 2015 3:23 pm

Well someone must be looking after me! Thanks heaps Paul_Gee. The mats arrived today. Time to take them out of the box, have a try & maybe take them camping tomorrow.
Thanks Again Snowys!
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby Alittleruff » Sun 06 Dec, 2015 3:47 pm

Ummm. Took the S2S UL insulated mats out to try them out. A little review, My thoughts-

1. Set up on the floor in my lounge. Yep, this will totally work! Ace. Pack 'um in my bag. Light & compact, big +'s.
2. Set up in my camp site. These things are quite flimsy, but I'm sure they are good quality. Didn't take that much to blow up. Popped them into the tent. They kind of just slide around in there. Oh well, maybe once you are actually lying on them it might be better. Threw a sleeping bag on each.
3. Hours later..."mum, I'm tired, I'm going to try out the mattress now and jump into a sleeping bag." Thoughts, it's 8:30pm... my son the night owl is going to bed by his own choice. WIN!
4. 30 minutes later, actually, I'm quite tired too... Might go see how he is going. Found him curled up in a ball at the bottom of the mattress in a very uncomfortable looking position. The mattress was now spread diagonally along the tent floor, and my spot was being dramatically reduced by the minute, squished against the side of the tent. Ummm.... I'll have to lift him up asleep and preposition him.
5. I get in, and try to re-position him. Slide, slip, sliding all over the job. Gave up eventually, how it lies is how it lies.
6. I get into my sleeping bag & lie on the other mat. Not too bad, except you don't want to lie on your side as your hips touch the ground. Or prop an elbow anywhere, as they will also hit the ground.
7. After a few more attempts at re positioning my son on his mat, and myself. I thought about how these mats actually feel more narrow than they are.
8. Quite noisy too.
9. They are fairly warm for what they are. Can't feel any cold through the ground.
10. Probably for people that sleep in a stationary position. But not on their side. Maybe back sleepers or tummy sleepers.
11. Look over in the night and morning to see my son sleeping on the ground. He did try to curl up and use my legs as pillows on more than one occasion. I don't think these sleeping mats are for him.
12. Woke up. Hit the valve.... hisss.... deflate done. That was easy. Roll up. Mats away.
13. Maybe if the camp site was more like my lounge room floor, dead level and able to grip the mats. Ummmm.... you would have to be really careful where you camp.

Well, it could have been worse I guess. One camper I spoke to had a dreadful night on a fold out sun lounge. Thought it would be dual purpose, chair come stretcher bed... but, it broke, and she had metal pipe sections digging into her during the night.

It could of course been a whole lot better.

For kids, that wriggle lots, I'm thinking the thermorest closed cell mats might be worth while.
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby paul_gee » Mon 07 Dec, 2015 8:49 am

Alittleruff wrote:Well someone must be looking after me! Thanks heaps Paul_Gee. The mats arrived today. Time to take them out of the box, have a try & maybe take them camping tomorrow.
Thanks Again Snowys!


Just in the nick of time, aye? :) Glad they got to you nice and quick.

Did you end up getting out and about with them?
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby Alittleruff » Mon 07 Dec, 2015 9:13 am

Yes Paul gee I did. We went into Blue Pools in Vic. Near Briagalong. Beautiful part of the world. See above for my thoughts on the mats.
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby gayet » Mon 07 Dec, 2015 10:29 am

Lots of mats slide around on the floor of the tent. Solutions are to paint some silicone strips or dots on the tent floor - these will give the mat a grippier surface and they won't slide as much. For hip hitting the ground - try a bit more inflation if it wasn't fully inflated (don't over-inflate though!).

I don't use these particular mats but have a couple of others, one with similar issues.
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby Chris-Toms Outdoors » Mon 07 Dec, 2015 12:26 pm

I stock the S2S matts, Exped and Thermarest. I'm still building our website and don't currently have the S2S listed online. (edited by admin)
http://www.tomsoutdoors.com.au Family owned outdoors store selling quality clothing and equipment. Located in Tumut NSW.
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby paul_gee » Mon 07 Dec, 2015 3:16 pm

Alittleruff wrote:Yes Paul gee I did. We went into Blue Pools in Vic. Near Briagalong. Beautiful part of the world. See above for my thoughts on the mats.


Sounds like you had a bit of a challenging night. Hope the day out made up for it? :)

I'm wondering whether they might not have been inflated enough. Did you inflate by breath, or do you have one of the S2S pump sacks? I'm a side sleeper too and found the UL only to give away to the ground when sitting up. I dig Gayet's suggestion re the mats sliding around. The UL is a very lightweight mat so there will always be a degree of floatiness.
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby paul_gee » Mon 07 Dec, 2015 3:17 pm

Chris-Toms Outdoors wrote:I stock the S2S matts, Exped and Thermarest. I'm still building our website and don't currently have the S2S listed online. I am happy to price match wild earth's prices. We offer free freight on orders over $80 and are base in Tumut.


Welcome to the industry, Tom! :) I'm Paul from Snowys.
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby stu » Mon 07 Dec, 2015 3:55 pm

I have the STS UL uninsulated version (sorry, away from the original thread topic, but comments are general).
Great little mat & obviously very light. I'm also a varied sleeper (back, side, front) & have found this mat to be adequate (hey, you're not going to get luxury at this size / weigh point, simple as that.
Inflation time is about 10 breaths compared to 20 for my previous Neoair...substantial saving when you're tired & just want to slump at days end.
In combination, I use a 2mm thick closed cell foam underlay a little bigger than the mat itself; 3 fold - (marginally) extra R value, reduces slippage to negligible amount & mainly protection for the mat as I mostly do off track walks & therefore much rougher camping. You can buy this 2-3mm foam from most foam suppliers off the roll.
I'll certainly look at investing in an insulated model in the future, good quality, comfortable & supporting an Australian business...win win.

Stu
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby Chris-Toms Outdoors » Mon 07 Dec, 2015 7:32 pm

paul_gee wrote:
Chris-Toms Outdoors wrote:I stock the S2S matts, Exped and Thermarest. I'm still building our website and don't currently have the S2S listed online. I am happy to price match wild earth's prices. We offer free freight on orders over $80 and are base in Tumut.


Welcome to the industry, Tom! :) I'm Paul from Snowys.


Hi Paul, I'm Chris but the shop is called Tom's Outdoors. I've been kicking around the industry for 10 years or so, this is my first foray as a store owner. I've actually been a Snowys customer, you guys run a good business.

Cheers Chris.
http://www.tomsoutdoors.com.au Family owned outdoors store selling quality clothing and equipment. Located in Tumut NSW.
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby Tintin » Fri 11 Dec, 2015 1:12 am

I am really tossing up between the S2S Ultralight Long and the insulated version of the same. The extra ~100g isn't a big deal, but is the extra insulation worth it? I would mainly use it in summer camping, but I plan on doing the Overland Track in April and I think it would start getting quite chilly around then. I have a -2 degree sleeping bag and a silk liner. Would I be better off investing in the insulated version, or would the 0.7 R-factor be enough with the sleeping bag/liner? Many thanks for any responses.
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Re: S2S Insulated Sleeping Mats ?

Postby Mark F » Fri 11 Dec, 2015 10:47 pm

Once temperatures start to drop below 10 degrees or camping on moist/wet ground you really need better insulation than R 0.7. Generally R2.5 is considered adequate to around 5 degrees, with a warm bag then closer to 0.
"Perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to remove".
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