Rubbish and litter disposal

[Lophophaps]

Guidance is sought about rubbish and litter disposal.

Until about 30 years ago tins were subject to the maxim of burn, bash and bury. The rationale was that a burnt flat buried tin would rust and thus have minimal impact on the environment The accepted way is now clean, crush and carry, still alliterative but better. Maybe we can work our way through the alphabet.

Food is a less clear issue. Should all food be taken out, including food from washing a billy, or should it be left? It has been suggested that as food will break down then there's no harm in leaving small portions of food on the ground. This will not work close to huts and well-used campsites, such as on Tassie's South Coast Track or parts of the AAWT. The remedy is to go a short distance from the campsite, with a bigger distance needed for campsites that have a lot of traffic. Larger amounts of food can be buried, again going further from campsites and the track as appropriate.

The alternative view is that food is foreign and can be dug up or eaten by animals, thus compromising the environment. It has been suggested that seeds may sprout, creating a problem. Has anyone seen an apple or orange tree that seems to have grown from discarded apple or orange pips?

The next point relates to cigarettes. Smoking is banned in NSW national parks. Elsewhere, most bushwalkers do not smoke. However, some do, and a decision needs to be made about what to do with matches and cigarette butts. Matches are wood and will rot, put them in the ground. Cigarettes have a lot of unnatural items, and take longer to rot. It could be argued that away from campsites, a very dead butt could be buried. The alternative view is that a buried butt is harmful, and like matches should be carried out.

Some cretins leave litter, and every effort should be made to carry this out. However, some litter is so putrefying, wet or dangerous that carrying is not an option. Sometimes it's not possible to carry out litter. The order seems to be:
carry out if you can;
if the litter is too nasty, too big or it's too far to carry it, bury the litter; and
if burying cannot be done, then move the litter away from the track or campsite.

Views on the above are sought. TIA.

[oyster_07]

I do not mean this to sound aggressive or bullish, and I note that I speak generally and do not address the issue of what can sustainably be buried and what cannot, but I contend that to say it is sometimes not possible to carry rubbish out with one's self is not accurate. I say this for two reasons:

(1) If one has rubbish, they most probably carried it in with them. When this was done, it was most probably full or not yet used and was therefore heavier. To carry rubbish out is easier than carrying in the item in its virgin state.

(2) To say something like carrying out rubbish is not possible' is a euphemistically expressing a choice not to remove it. I acknowledge it may be more difficult in some situations, but thorough planning alleviates the difficulty in both effort and choice.

Last edited by oyster_07 on Wed 11 May, 2016 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[neilmny]

I agree with oyster_07, if you can carry it in then you can carry it out or if you determine that you will not be able to carry your rubbish out do so before you go and don't take such items with you.
A thought on burying butts........cigarettes contain nicotine, the filter collects nicotine, nicotine is an insecticide which could kill good critters in the vacinity of where it is buried???????????
The whole world is not an ashtray so butts etc. should be taken out just like the ear of a sugar sachet or similar small item that you tear off.
Traces of food are tricky......maybe if the food is vegetable with no seeds it's OK to leave behind perhaps buried like bodily waste might be better. Processed meats and sausages which are generally preserved......probably better to take them home.

[Lophophaps]

I do not mean this to sound aggressive or bullish, and I note that I speak generally and do not address the issue of what can sustainably be bullied and what cannot, but I contend that to say it is sometimes not possible to carry rubbish out with one's self is not accurate. I say this for two reasons:

I'm lost. A shorter sentence would assist me greatly to understand. Note that I'm not expressing a view, just detailing options.

(1) If one has rubbish, they most probably carried it in with them. When this was done, it was most probably full or not yet used and was therefore heavier. To carry rubbish out is easier than carrying in the item in its virgin state.

Usually. Empty packets and clean items have less weight and volume than before. Some more grotty packets and items could be hard to clean, and may breed bacteria.

(2) To say something like carrying out rubbish is not possible' is a euphemistically expressing a choice not to remove it. I acknowledge it may be more difficult in some situations, but thorough planning alleviates the difficulty in both effort and choice.

I said "Some cretins leave litter, and every effort should be made to carry this out ... Sometimes it's not possible to carry out litter." Litter is by definition something that has been left, and I'm referring to litter left by others. What do you do when you find putrifying litter?

Neil, agree, carry it in, carry it out. Good point about nicotine. Agree regarding traces of food.

[icefest]

If your food has packaging that will turn so gross that you can't carry it, maybe don't take it?

If I know I'll be having a fire I will often prefer to take plastic that can be burnt.

[GPSGuided]

What kind of plastic is suited to burning? Not talking about biodegradable plastic are you?

[tom_brennan]

Take the plastic out. Many plastics can be recycled.

[GBW]

If your food has packaging that will turn so gross that you can't carry it, maybe don't take it?

Agree.

It's not that hard to carry your rubbish out and if you're smart about it there's very little waste anyway.

Food waste? I never have any! Most of my food is DIY dried apart from fruit/nut bars. The hardest thing I find to carry out are tuna sachets which I usually give the inside a quick dry over the flame before rolling up and sealing in a ziplock rubbish bag. If you remove the water there's no bacterial growth and smelly waste to worry about.

[north-north-west]

For me, there is no such thing as 'food waste' unless I spill something during preparation. What I cook, I eat, even if it's a struggle to get it all down. I eat from the pot in which I cook, and wipe the inside with a finger that gets licked clean (yeah, I know it's gross to some people but I've never gotten sick from it and walking alone means there's no-one else to see it) so there's no water or waste involved.
Packaging is minimised, retained and disposed of appropriately on return. What can go in the recycle bin, does. Don't smoke, so there aren't any butts. Usually take something in a large press-seal bag (smoked salmon is good for this, ditto mountain bread) for the first day/night and that bag becomes my rubbish bin for the walk. Everything goes in it, including the bits and pieces of other people's rubbish that get collected on the way.
Collection of OPR is subject to practicality but done whenever possible. First time through the WArthurs I collected a large mountain bread bag that had been left at Lake Juno or Vesta, which was full of rubbish. It had been left hanging on a tree out in the sun and some of whatever was in there was going off badly. Thanks to the strength of the seal you couldn't actually smell it but it kind of radiated an intense yukkiness. Luckily there was room away from clothes and food to carry it.


The cigarette butt thing does *&^%$#! me off a fair bit. There are a surprising number of animals who aren't put off by the smell of things and will swallow them. The filter fibres can swell and/or congregate in the stomach or intestines and cause major health issues for these animals, including fatalities. Any that get in waterways can be ingested by fish and other aquatic species, to the same effect. If it was possible to enforce a total ban on cigarettes in the bush I'd back it to the hilt.

[puredingo]

Reminds me of a sign that was posted next to a popular swimming hole near were I grew up in the National park.

It read..."please bury or burn you rubbish and tins, hide your bottles like you would your sins..."

This was an actual council approved official sign, back in the 70s when people were less environmental aware but way more imaginative.

[Nuts]

No reason it shouldn't all come out, food scraps can go in composting toilets and it can help.. or at least be fairly benign.. but everything else should be out. I'm sure some people figured this out long before they were told to, ie. even in the crush, smash, burn and bury days.

Is that right, smoking banned in NSW NP's? Smoking is what it is, butts dismal as any litter. I know we are all trying to be better people making better life choices.. tut tutting, doing good and expecting good done on others behalf... but really?

[Tortoise]

Food waste? I never have any!

For me, there is no such thing as 'food waste' unless I spill something during preparation. What I cook, I eat, even if it's a struggle to get it all down. I eat from the pot in which I cook, and wipe the inside with a finger that gets licked clean (yeah, I know it's gross to some people but I've never gotten sick from it and walking alone means there's no-one else to see it) so there's no water or waste involved.

+1
The posh alternative to the finger method is to use a little scourer, like a square cut from an onion or orange bag that doesn't hold onto food, plus a little water. As I now rehydrate instead of cooking, nothing sticks to the pot (which I also eat out of). Quick scour, drink a bit of flavoured water, and Bob's my uncle. I don't have to leave my tent to wash up, which is excellent in yucky weather. No food scraps tossed that might attract animals to my tent.

In my going lighter mode, I've worked out exactly what I need, and weigh my MYO meals. If i'm not hungry for some reason, I just don't cook everything planned for dinner (e.g. only use half the soup base). That leaves a bit extra emergency food.

[tom_brennan]

It read..."please bury or burn you rubbish and tins, hide your bottles like you would your sins...".

This was actually the Sydney Bush Walkers' club slogan for some years in the 1930s and 1940s. It came from a poem by Kath Mackay with help from Marie Byles.

http://sbw.ozultimate.com/wiki/194101#t ... b_s_slogan

[FootTrack]

I take everything out with me. I think for the "Leave No Trace" concept to be effective, things need to be be made unambiguous and clear cut for people. As soon as exceptions are made (however justifiable they may seem on a case basis) people inevitably begin to twist the rules. Additionally, I think people are less likely to litter if an area is clean to begin. As soon as it becomes even mildly tarnished people very quickly adopt the "what the heck" attitude.

Oyster and Neil have hit the nail on the head regarding my own sentiment.

My other concern with leaving food waste behind is that animals are more likely to become pests if this becomes common practice, which is almost always to their own detriment. Human-animal conflict should be avoided.

Regarding other people's waste, I take everything out that is manageable. That said, I don't touch stuff that poses a higher health risk e.g. toilet paper, band aids. For the small "drop in the ocean" that this waste is, it's not worth the risk in my opinion. If I choose not to take it out I just leave it where it is. That way it gives other people or Parks the opportunity to take it if they want. Visible litter is obviously important feedback to management authorities.

[walk2wineries]

Walking at Belair National Park today. $12 fee, its practically suburban and no rubbish bins. .....I took my own litter home but not picking up. Yeah yeah I know the "we have better uses for our money" but that's pushing it - and cradle mountain is the same for a short-term visitor, v expensive although admittedly not suburban. Usually what happens there is that the small bins in the toilets overflow.

Stone fruit trees along NSW highways probably from discarded pits.... corridor for fruit fly, they are all infested, its one of the ways it spreads. Not a Good Thing.

I do carry large plastic bags (the good thing about the no-free-plastic-bags in some states is that the bought ones are much more sturdy) particularly for beach walks, problem is that sometimes bags fill quickly - usually of boatie's waste, and often stuff I can't leave, like torn fishing nets etc 'cos its an immediate danger to wildlife. Dilemma. I have found that rangers are sometimes pretty good about taking it off your hands if its clear that you've been picking up litter but there's usually more litter than rangers.

Also if I'm doing a day or short walk ptrly if returning to the car, along a multi-day trail I will offer to take out trash for thru-walkers. I agree about the icky personal waste although even then if its near the end of the walk and I have an empty bag (put hand in bag, invert over waste - like taking off a glove - so you don't actually touch it) I have collected nappies and brown-and-white butterflies. Ick.

[puredingo]

It read..."please bury or burn you rubbish and tins, hide your bottles like you would your sins...".

This was actually the Sydney Bush Walkers' club slogan for some years in the 1930s and 1940s. It came from a poem by Kath Mackay with help from Marie Byles.

http://sbw.ozultimate.com/wiki/194101#t ... b_s_slogan

Thanks, that's interesting. I never knew that.

[icefest]

As far as I know no multi-layered plastics are recyclable in Australia, That includes thing like the cryovac packaging of steak.

[Eremophila]

My partner is a smoker. His butts usually go in his pocket (yes, yuck) or occasionally he'll remember to take along a ziplock bag or something to put them in. Never left behind.

Littering is one of my all-time pet hates and I don't hesitate to lecture someone if I spot them littering, any time, anywhere. There is simply no excuse.

On walks I'll usually collect a few pieces of other people's litter, if it's particularly abundant I just have to remind myself that I can't collect it all. Sometimes it's a choice - what's least likely to break down, is something causing a hazard eg broken glass. Beach walks are frustrating - I take plastic bags but they are full in a couple of minutes.

Like others I draw the line at tissues, loo paper, bandaids etc.

Once on Mt Gillen I cleaned up the remains of a ridgetop "party" - empty painkiller packets and Red Bull shots cans, amongst other stuff. Scored a 1L of Jack Daniels (with full seal intact) that they'd left behind.

[tom_brennan]

My wife and I did a day walk to Mt Solitary last year for the express purpose of cleaning up litter. What we found was pretty horrifying. The pictures don't tell all of the story, but they give you some idea of what some people think is acceptable practice.
http://ozultimate.com/tom/bushwalking/2 ... photos.htm

[tom_brennan]

As far as I know no multi-layered plastics are recyclable in Australia, That includes thing like the cryovac packaging of steak.

Not sure exactly what you mean by multi-layered plastics, but plenty of plastic bags are recyclable in Australia. See
http://redcycle.net.au/redcycle/how-to-redcycle
for details of what and how.

[keithy]

Not sure exactly what you mean by multi-layered plastics, but plenty of plastic bags are recyclable in Australia. See
http://redcycle.net.au/redcycle/how-to-redcycle
for details of what and how.

That's brilliant, thanks for the post. I didn't know there was anywhere to recycle these! I will now print a list of the things that can get recycled and I'll make a separate recycling tub for them in our house.

I've also found one of my local supermarkets will accept them - I just have to check for the Redcycle bin, as I've never seen it there before.

Also nice work on your Mt Solitary collection. Sad to see so much rubbish out there, and finding dunny paper like that is just... grrrrr...

I've started carrying a dedicated sea to summit trash bag that I can hang outside my pack which makes it easier to carry out rubbish, but also makes it easier for me to put picked up dropped trash as well.

[GPSGuided]

but plenty of plastic bags are recyclable in Australia. See
http://redcycle.net.au/redcycle/how-to-redcycle
for details of what and how.

Great! Essentially at Coles supermarkets.

[ribuck]

It read..."please bury or burn you rubbish and tins, hide your bottles like you would your sins...".

This was actually the Sydney Bush Walkers' club slogan for some years in the 1930s and 1940s...

...and when the burying of tins in the bush started to become unacceptable, the SBW walks program included this little poem:

"The tins you carry in your pack
are lighter on the journey back.
Though empties are a bore to hump,
the bush is not a rubbish dump."

[Lophophaps]

Thanks for the above comments. I’m going to attempt to summarise what most people do.

1 With very few exceptions, if you carry it in you carry it out
2 One exception is very small food particles from washed billies.
3 All litter that can safely be carried out is carried out if practical. Finding litter on the first day of a 14 day trip might be a bit much to carry.
4 In general, plastic should always be carried out. Plastics can be recycled
5 Cigarettes have chemicals than can have adverse effect s on wildlife, and should not be buried. Matches – no view expressed.
6 Litter leads to more litter, so clean up what you can.
7 Leave no trace applies.

Comments about this list would be good.

[puredingo]

It read..."please bury or burn you rubbish and tins, hide your bottles like you would your sins...".

This was actually the Sydney Bush Walkers' club slogan for some years in the 1930s and 1940s...

...and when the burying of tins in the bush started to become unacceptable, the SBW walks program included this little poem:

"The tins you carry in your pack
are lighter on the journey back.
Though empties are a bore to hump,
the bush is not a rubbish dump."

....And then 20 years later when the gen Y took the reins they promply added this verse:

"To the wind may your tins and rubbish scatter
for the future will not be your concern nor matter
and cairn the track, paint the rock, ribbon the tree
this is Australia where we all take for free."

[tom_brennan]

1 With very few exceptions, if you carry it in you carry it out
2 One exception is very small food particles from washed billies.
3 All litter that can safely be carried out is carried out if practical. Finding litter on the first day of a 14 day trip might be a bit much to carry.
4 In general, plastic should always be carried out. Plastics can be recycled
5 Cigarettes have chemicals than can have adverse effect s on wildlife, and should not be buried. Matches – no view expressed.
6 Litter leads to more litter, so clean up what you can.
7 Leave no trace applies.

Good summary Lophophaps.

To (2) I would add that in washing billies, they should be emptied well away from water sources.

Other comments:
- Many common packaging plastics can be recycled
- Matches I would either incinerate in the fire, if you have one, or carry out - mainly because if you see them lying around, they look like litter.

[north-north-west]

Missed the match thing. My own are returned to the box after use - and yeah, I do make sure they're cold before shoving them in there. As I seldom use official campsites I don't tend to trip over that many discarded matches.

[maddog]

"To the wind may your tins and rubbish scatter
for the future will not be your concern nor matter
and cairn the track, paint the rock, ribbon the tree
this is Australia where we all take for free."

If people are concerned about matchsticks, what about feces and urine? Do you all carry that out with you?

[Lophophaps]

This thread moved away from rubbish and litter, so I split it, creating Going potty in the bush. See
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23248
Rubbish and litter comments in the thread you are reading, and going potty comments in the new one. Thanks. Any comments about going potty and littering are best not combined. I can only do one thing at a time.

[walk2wineries]

I think multi-layered plastics include coffee cups; they are often labelled in such a way to suggest they are biodegradable (eg "evironmentally sound") but sometimes that just means that some recylcled paper is in the mix. Coles, oddly, is accepting everything locally EXCEPT cans and bottles with a 10c refund. Wierd. I think I'd like to see charity bins at the supermarkets for these; I don't get enough to bother returning to the depot so they go in the general recycling bin.
The Sea to Summit bag is a good idea; I carry a heavy Coles or Aldi (recommend Aldi!) 15c bag, occaisonally pick up and reuse discarded bags but sometimes they are brittle if they've been in the sun for a while.