Bogong in July - hiking boots?

[sparsh]

Hi all

A couple friends and I (all 18) are planning to spend a few days up around Mt.Bogong, thinking of doing the Staircase Spur from Mountain Creek on the 5th of July. We haven't trekked much in the Victorian Alps, but extensively in the Dandenongs and spent a week trekking Sandakphu in the Himalayas (non technical hike). Would we be able to do this without snow shoes/crampons? We have hiking boots and snow poles. Our itinerary as planned currently looks like this

4/7 Day 1: Melbourne to Mt.Beauty (vline)
5/7 Day 2: Mt. Beauty to Mountain Creek (trek) - 12.4km
6/7 Day 3: Summit and Back via Staircase Spur (19.4km)
7/7 Day 4: Mountain Creek to Mount Beauty - 12.4km
8/7 Day 5: Mt.Beauty to Melbourne (vline)

Thanks in advance for the advice!

[stry]

As a bare minimum in any snow deeper than a couple of inches you would want gaiters. Deeper snow and one can easily sink in past the knees which makes the going very difficult, not to mention the wet and cold feet from snow melt in your boots.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

The weather , especially in Winter on Mt. Bogong is potentially diabolical. Whether you will need crampons or snowshoes, ski poles and an ice axe may vary by the time you rock up next month.
I would come prepared with these things as well as assuming that you will be walking in poor visibility with freezing and wet conditions. Knee length gaiters would not be optional.
The summit and back is a tough hike even with day packs. In winter in the Australian Alps you often have to change your plans in order to match the conditions. That means a tight schedule may not be possible and you should just be happy with coming back in one piece. The daylight hours are very short and the push up the Staircase and back may not be feasible in one winter day.
If the weather at Bivouac hut ( half way up the Staircase) is bad , really "fertilizer" , then either sit tight and camp at the hut or turn back.
I have turned a group around at Bivouac hut in an electrical storm in December and it was the safest option.
At the start of the track there is a check list . It asks you do you have a map and compass, GPS, PLB, etc. etc.
Some poor fellows died in an avalanche two winters back. Their bodies were found under 6 metres of snow.
It was after that incident , that the extra signage was erected.
My tip is to try the Eskdale spur if you are going up the Big Fella in winter.
From Camp Creek Gap it is only about 2 kms to Michel hut at around 1600 M.
From there you can see if the weather is safe to proceed or not . If yes then it is only 2 kms to the summit from Michel hut. It is very Steep whichever way you go. The rapid elevation gain is the lung buster.
You do have to walk about 7 kms further along the jeep road from Mountain Creek to get there but that is easy , quick and sheltered.

[Lophophaps]

There's good advice above. Consider getting a taxi from Mt Beauty to as far as possible up the road. The cost will be maybe $40 and it will save a slog through farmland. You may find a place on the way back to call for a taxi. The Eskdale is easier. With one or two days of walking saved by taking a taxi you have more time in the mountains to wait out bad weather.

You need to be able to read the snow, especially windslab, which can occur anywhere, but especially northern slopes. The snow melts on a hot day, layer of ice, and the next snow just sits on it, waiting to slide off. Be aware of ice fields, where it can be very hazardous to proceed. As paidal_chalne_vala said, plans change. I too have bailed on trips, once chopping four days - the highlights - off an estended trip I'd been planning for six months. Last November I used an escape route as the weather was looking crook. It was very bad, and I was low, avoiding the bad. Happens. Turning back is fine. Needing rescuing or injury or worse due to not turning back is ill-advised.

[Giddy_up]

Don't forget to treat your boots with a waterproofer of some sort. I use snow seal on mine and they are leather with gortex and will be wet by the end of a few days. They will freeze solid at night too, so take some big ziplock bags that fit into your shoes and fill them with hot water in the mornings. Once warm put the water into your water bottles for the day. This little trick will make the start to each day a bit nicer for your toes

Gaiters are a must I would have thought and not taking snow shoes when going for a week is a big ask. Even the weather man won't know if it's going to snow or not later into your walk. All it takes is one fall of good snow and your walk is not a lot of fun, doable but not nice.

Enjoy it though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moondog55]

Experience is everything on Bogong in winter
If you are not both equipped and experienced in winter Alpine conditions I would not recommend Bogong as a first time venture
Hiking boots minimum; mountaineering boots preferred IMO and the possibility of needing crampons and an ice axe should not be ignored; technical snowshoes may or may not be needed depending on conditions.
It's a great hill/mountain in good conditions and a real killer in bad ones
Good boots with tall gaiters a must
Storm clothing including goggles windproof mittens and enough clothing to cope with the coldest temperatures recorded plus a safety margin
I plan for -18C for sleeping and -10C for daytime
Winds of up to 100KPH must be expected and planned for
Sorry to put it like that but it's not a beginners mountain because things can change so rapidly
Feathertop is slightly more beginner friendly but the same gear needs to be carried there too

[Xplora]

It seems you only have one day and not 5 and that really is not a good plan but I accept you must be restrained because of the public transport. Why not get a taxi from Mt. Beauty and save at least one day walking or walk it on the first day? It would only take you 3 hours and you could do it in the dark. The bus may even let you off at Tawonga. I agree with PCV that it would be a big day up and back with maybe a first light start and finish in the dark. A lot of effort for not a great deal of benefit but it is your walk and you can do it how you like. I do agreee that Feathertop is a better choice if you do not have everything sorted but even then you could get into trouble. You would be up Bungalow spur from Harrietville pretty quick. That aside, I personally would not do Bogong without snowshoes at least but if it were only for a day then you could post hole your way up and back. It would only be the last section from Biv hut up anyway that would give you any grief depending on what happens in the next few weeks (not much so far). Early mornings and the snow would be ice so then I would use crampons but it would melt enough by mid morning if there is sun. Who knows? It may all be grass cover. Without your own transport I would give Eskdale spur a miss on the way up but if you have extra days then a return via Eskdale and Michell hut would be good. Be prepared to travel all that way and sit around at camp or turn around if the weather changes.

[Lophophaps]

Xplorer has a good idea - Feathertop. The bus gets into Harrietville about 2 pm, time for a rushed ascent to Federation Hut, probably reaching there after dark. You can stop at the Bungalow Hut site, and a number of other places. The return bus is at about 10 am, which would mean camping low, perhaps Tobias Gap (water about 500 metres up the hill, probably) or at the Harrietville caravan park.

Feathertop is a lot simpler, and I think it's better given the public transport aspect.
4/7 Day 1: Melbourne train, bus, bus to Harrietville and Bungalow Spur
5/7 Day 2: Federation Hut, summit
6/7 Day 3: Federation Hut, summit if weather is bad on the day before
7/7 Day 4: Bungalow spur to Tobias Gap or Harrietville.
8/7 Day 5: Bus, bus train to Melbourne (vline)

[Moondog55]

sparsh if this trek is simply to experience snow there are easier [ and safer] ways to do it.
It's a lot of effort for such a small time above the snowline too
If you could allow an extra day or two it would make the experience better all around; doing a great circle around Falls Creek village or similar' spending a little more on bus fares but giving you more time up high
just a thought

[sparsh]

Hi everyone!

So after a bunch of recommendations, we've changed plans to the Bungalow Spur, thanks
We're quite inexperienced so it was really helpful that we were able to get some pointers.

Re: Bungalow Spur, I assume we need the same gear as Bogong? Snowshoes and 4 season tents?

[Lophophaps]

So after a bunch of recommendations, we've changed plans to the Bungalow Spur, thanks
We're quite inexperienced so it was really helpful that we were able to get some pointers.

Re: Bungalow Spur, I assume we need the same gear as Bogong? Snowshoes and 4 season tents?

The gear is pretty much the same, except that Feathertop is a lot easier from the campsite. Also, going up on a Monday in early July means that there's more chance of a path in the snow by the weekend parties. Of course if it starts snowing on the Sunday then the paths will go, hidden under the fall. If plugging steps, take it in turns to lead. People behind the leader should plug the gaps between the leader's steps, making it easier for the last person.

If you strike deep snow you will flounder without snow shoes. One year my party took three hours to get from the Bungalow Hut Site to Federation. I was on skis and hardly saw them. Up to just past Federation Hut it's at worst uncomfortable and a slog. Beyond there it gets interesting. Watch out for steep (and sometimes gentle) slopes that may fall down. Much of the ridge is exposed, and snow tends not to stick. The bad part is that much of the summit track is rocky, which could mean ice. If in doubt, turn back.

Where it flattens, the summit ridge usually has a cornice, on your right as you ascend, heading easterly. It's really critical that you stay well to the left of this on the outward journey, and the right on return. The cornice has claimed one life, Tom Kneen, a very experienced walker, 1985 from memory. If clouds descend on the summit take extreme care. Use a compass if you have to.

Days end early in winter, and by 4 pm it's good to be in the tent or the hut. Stay warm. Tents should be in the trees but not under them. Clumps of snow tend to fall with some power.

[Moondog55]

Any particular reason for using public transport? Check things out as it may be cheaper to hire a car.
Hiring a car was my cheapest option a few times

[paidal_chalne_vala]

In fact IMO , Neither Mt Bogong nor Mt Feathertop are places to go in winter if none of you have any experience of winter snow and ice camping and trekking above the Tree line in the Australian Alps.
If it is very icy or snowy or super windy and cold knowing how to keep warm, safe and how to self arrest ( stop sliding down an 80 Degree slope) will come in handy.
Knowing how to read the conditions both in terms of Alpine winter /Spring weather and the snow/ice/walking surface takes years and even then bailing out to be on the safe side will always be my first choice.
I take beginners for winter snow camping and snow hiking to Mt Stirling. I love it up there. It is just fab.
I am waiting for July to bring the deep snow to Mt Stirling !!
You can get back to the car park quite easily from either King spur hut or the Bluff spur hut. There is a pole line over the summit so becoming lost is less likely.

There is a ski patrol up there and the Spencer street to Mansfield and Mt. Buller Bus (v /Line) has a connecting service to Mt Stirling in white season from Mirimbah .

[oldpiscator]

The cornice has claimed one life, Tom Kneen, a very experienced walker, 1985 from memory.

Yes Tom was an experienced bushwalker. He worked with the Bureau of Meteorology as a hydrologist. From memory his body wasn't recovered until the spring thaw. There is a track named after him starting from the back of the Harrietville Trout farm.

[sparsh]

We have to take public transport as none of us have access to vehicles atm (we have our licenses but parents aren't too keen on us driving to a remote location.)

Regarding Stirling, what's a good multi day itinerary that we could use?

[Moondog55]

PM incoming

[Xplora]

My best advice to the young and inexperienced is to hook up with someone a bit older who has some experience. You are on the wrong side of the mountain for me now but maybe someone here can help you out. Staying safe is all anyone here ever wants for others apart from having a great experience. I have hit snow on Howitt with no snow shoes in a freakish May storm. It is not fun but you can post hole through. Gives your hips a bit of a work out. We did not do the Crosscut though until the snow had gone. Federation hut to Harrietville can be done in less than 2 hours if you are fit. Lops has come good again with more helpful stuff but I can't take credit for Moondog's idea of Bungalow spur. Just a tip if you take snowshoes - get some reasonably strong shock cord and make a web on the back of your pack, threading it through the side compression straps. Tie it off tight enough so you can jam your snow shoes in and they will hold tight against your pack for those many hours you will not need them.

[Lophophaps]

Oldpiscator, yes, Tom's body was not discovered until spring, way down in a gully. These are steep gullies. One year when I was young and foolish and the cornice was small I went ice climbing in a gully. Even at young and foolish I was uncomfortable. It's not called Avalanche gully for nothing. Blue Lake and Watsons Crags were much nicer, although carting upwards of 30 kilograms of gear was not funny. Ropes and sundry metal weigh, and my mountain boots were maybe 4 kilograms. Big pack.

Xplora, I missed something so obvious that "Ve are too soon old und too late schmart" does not apply to me. Must be the cold. Sparsh, why not go with a club? This solves all your problems in one go. Transport, people to give advice, support, organisation are included. What you will most probably not get is an extended trip, just a weekend. There may also be reticence about taking new starters on a snow trip, so you will need to show that you have the experience, stamina and gear. Worth a shot. There's plenty of Melbourne-based clubs. See
http://www.bushwalkingvictoria.org.au/
for some clubs.

[Moondog55]

Well the offer to join me at Pretty Valley each year is an open invitation that not many people take up.
I was on Feathertop the year tat a collapsing cornice took Joe Friend down and smashed his legs, that cornice was huge that year, I was over a dozen metres from the edge and looked down and there was a crack between my legs. I moved to the left and downhill rapidly. It was the day after that it collapsed

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Mt Stirling has very many kilometres of trails. One popular route is from the carpark up to the summit and then over to Craig's hut and back the next day .Others prefer to camp at the Bluff spur hut and make Craig's hut a day walk without the huge pack.
In full snow cover even with good snow shoes and poles it will take twice as long to do a pack carry trek . Usually 10 or 11 kms with an early start is the white season limit per day for me. I want to be at the tent or the hut by 4 pm in Winter, sooner if the weather turns to excrement.

Have a look at the VNPA winter hiking Programme or contact them to get a copy. There are snow trips including a snow camping for beginners trip scheduled for this white season in the Vic. Alps. Car pooling is a useful feature of such walking groups. MEET UP has a number of hiking clubs which do winter white season overnight trips. Not all of them are part of Bushwalking Victoria, the " umbrella organization" which is the kosher option.
MoonDog, I might be heading over to Pretty Valley from Windy Corner on the weekend of August 20th . If you see a tall person with a huge pack slogging it along the track in snow shoes then it could well be me!.

[Moondog55]

MoonDog, I might be heading over to Pretty Valley from Windy Corner on the weekend of August 20th . If you see a tall person with a huge pack slogging it along the track in snow shoes then it could well be me!.

I'll make you coffee when you arrive
Feel free to drop into the big tent and help yourself if I'm not there just light the fire in the stove as I'll be sure to be back soon

[Lophophaps]

Moondog55, wow, I was unaware that Joe had fallen off the top. In the mid-1970s he was very experienced on rock and ice. A cornice 12 metres deep is to be treated with caution. It's hard to advise what to do as the terrain changes so much. Well back from the south side (right side going up) is good, but too far and it gets quite steep. This is on the north slope,could get icey and come off in windslab. Following the path is no good as it may be in the wrong place.

Maybe have look at the summit from Molly Hill Cairn or thereabouts.

[GBW]

We have to take public transport as none of us have access to vehicles atm (we have our licenses but parents aren't too keen on us driving to a remote location.)

I'd hardly call Harrietville a remote location!

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Telephone Box Junction at Mt Stirling is only 9 kms from the sealed road at Mirimbah. You will need snow chains if you take the car.
You will need a tarpaulin and rubber dishwashing gloves if you are required to fit the chains. Lying down in icy cold slush and mud is not fun but being equipped and ready for this ordeal makes it almost bearable.
Yes looking at the cornice on Mt FT before you get too close to it is a good idea. Also if the surface at the campsite at Fed. hut is icy and crunchy rather than soft snow then the summit ridge will be worse.
However in Spring the ice cornices on the Razorback become too soft in the afternoons which is not good either.
You fellows (original posters of this thread) might find an easier snow camping and snow hiking option at Mt Saint Gwinear.
I have not worked out if public transport goes to the Baw Baw N.P. I doubt it !.Hiring a car could work but most car hire firms won't allow their cars to be driven on dirt roads, ever.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Now that the snow is here you will need to plan accordingly.
I had a ripper day at Mt Buffalo on June 25th 2016. The snow was pure powder!. The summit of the Horn was very icy.

[muddy99]

there is a truckload of snow up on Bogong at the moment - there's snow all the way down to below Camp Ck Gap. I was just there (25th Jun), these photos will give you an idea. Ascended Eskdale, descended Staircase, calm (ie, protected from the southerly) until the summit. It was -4.5 at Falls, so Bogong Summit was probably -5 and with windchill, more like -12...we didn't hang around. WE probably shouldve taken snow shoes, but were moving light and fast. I had snow baskets on my trekking poles and some microspikes for my leather scarpas...plus full emergency gear (epirb, satphone, gps) and spare warm clothes, and that was just for a day walk.

top of Eskdale Spur 25th Jun 2016

looking down the Staircase 25th Jun 2016

The Staircase below the summit 25th Jun 2016

[Xplora]

We were up around the 1600m mark on BHP yesterday and there was at least 40cm of soft snow. Sometimes snowshoes and really soft snow can be hard work too as you still sink then the snow falls on top of the shoes and you have to lift that out as well. Shoes with tail extensions would be the go. With another good dump forecast later this week it is looking to be a good start to the season. These picks shoe Bogong pretty icey and solid. Crampons for this if it is steep.

[Moondog55]

As I am leaving Geelong AM on July 4th to go to Falls Creek the offer to join me at Pretty Valley still stands.
Truth is I'd relish somebody giving me a hand to pull the sleds up that first hill

[hairypanic]

Great photos, love the ice on the poles

[benjabimon]

I've been following this thread for a little bit and wanted to say thanks to everyone for contributing information and awesome photos

Does anyone have any recommendations on where would be a good place to hire snow shoes? I see there are more places than I thought in Melbourne, or on the way to the snow fields, that hire out shoes, but if anyone has any specific recommendations that would be welcome. Thanks!