Up New River to Federation

[Nuts]

Is that 'Pear' Shaped.....?

[Ent]

That be it Nuts

[ILUVSWTAS]

Although not overly surprised, im still kinda stumped!!

People jusrt dont think the scrub CAN get as bad as people say... imagine kilometres of the *&%$#! we (group of 5 forum users) were stuck in for an hour or 2 on saturday... yeh I wouldnt like it much and they were "asked" if they knew what they were doing.....

[Taurë-rana]

imagine kilometres of the *&%$#@! we (group of 5 forum users) were stuck in for an hour or 2 on saturday... ..

Sounds interesting, is a report going to be forthcoming?

[ILUVSWTAS]

Maybe when I regain the ability to think DA

[ollster]

imagine kilometres of the *&%$#@! we (group of 5 forum users) were stuck in for an hour or 2 on saturday... ..

Sounds interesting, is a report going to be forthcoming?

I'll give my report... "Don't go to Mt Liellateah".

[ILUVSWTAS]

No...and if you do, allow at least 14hrs.. pack a head torch for the log crossing, and arm gaiters are optional

but we did get it's 2 points....

[Son of a Beach]

I think in this case some gentle criticism is warranted. We did try and warn them, and perhaps the wording was not harsh enough.

Hopefully this thread can be viewed as a warning for others?

I agree but struggle with this. People were genuinely concerned and trying to warn, and yet perhaps were not making it clear enough just how bad it is on such routes. However, if we get harsh with people they may simply stop listening altogether. It's really hard to know how to provide such warnings in a way that they will be suitably appreciated.

Perhaps it is better to be harsh if it's more likely to get the message through when the message is critical.

I'm glad they made it out in any case.

I wonder if they would have attempted this if a PLB was not an option. I'm not saying this as a good thing or a bad thing, as I don't know the guys at all, but having the facility available does have the potential to change the plans for some people.

[corvus]

I think in this case some gentle criticism is warranted. We did try and warn them, and perhaps the wording was not harsh enough.

Hopefully this thread can be viewed as a warning for others?

I agree but struggle with this. People were genuinely concerned and trying to warn, and yet perhaps were not making it clear enough just how bad it is on such routes. However, if we get harsh with people they may simply stop listening altogether. It's really hard to know how to provide such warnings in a way that they will be suitably appreciated.

I'm glad they made it out in any case.

I wonder if hey would have attempted this if a PLB was not an option.

Nik,
I agree with you and we cannot win in a situation like this, risk taking is a passage of rite for the young I have done it as no doubt you have however my errors did not cost around $5000.00 Tassie tax payer dollars ouch!!
What do you think about the user pay system? if you require a rescue only thorough inexperience rather than a genuine emergency injury ,but then if we did not undertake a rescue perhaps

[tasadam]

Assuming it is them... (a safe assumption).
I have no doubt that they believe they did the right thing in calling for rescue. I hold nothing against them, especially for that.
Imagine someone going walking, failing for whatever reason, and hesitating to press the rescue button because of what ramifications might be bestowed upon them by media / public / forum topics.
Imagine that hesitation causing a greater problem.

[rant] My perspective on the cost issue. Yes it is a cost to the taxpayer, but do we really notice it in our hip pockets? And if we do, is it worth it? How much is spent by MAIB every time someone dies or gets injured in a vehicle accident crash? I think I notice the registration premium going up every year a whole lot more than I notice the cost of the rescue helicopter from taxes. I'm sure the Gov't would spend the money on something else if it wasn't the chopper, and I doubt it would be something that would benefit me. Driver training? Needed a whole lot more than education of inexperienced bushwalkers, cost benefit would be a whole lot more than the cost of a bushwalker rescue occasionally, yet it won't happen because gov't spending is too reactive. All those Please report litter signs they've put up, but police tell me that they cannot act on littering offences unless they actually see it happen. Plenty of money is wasted, but I do not see the chopper money as waste, nor do I believe users should pay - this is only going to make someone that genuinely needs it hesitate because of cost, and may cause a death as a result. What we do has risks attached. Though it is a possibility, I hope I never have to read about a member of this forum passing away doing what they are doing when it could have been prevented by a chopper rescue. [/rant]
I am thankful the service is there to support bushwalkers, boaters, motor vehicle accident emergency flights, etc. And I hope I never need it, but I do own a PLB.

Whether or not they bit off more than they could chew, I say good on em for giving it a go, and well done for taking the courageous step of calling for rescue, knowing what warnings or advice they had already been given. The decision to be rescued must not have been an easy one and I'm glad it wasn't me.
I'm sure they learned more than they intended from this journey.

I can only imagine how bad it must have been. My recent south west cape circuit walk, I encountered scrub that was impossible to go through on several occasions. I've been through a fair bit of scrub in my time, but it's a different thing down there. I'd never seen Bauera 4 metres high before. I'd never felt Banksia so tough that branches as thin as your little finger had absolutely no give in them at all and would bruise your leg if pushed through. Walls of teatree? Brick walls of teatree!
Slowly, gently... You won't get as far in a day, but you won't get as exhausted either. But sometimes you just have to turn back and find another way.

I am very pleased that they are okay and look forward to their trip report, must have been quite an adventure. Oh the places I could go if I were in my 20's again...

Found this article.

[flyfisher]

Must add that I too am glad they got out ok.

I hope walkers in trouble never hesitate to set off their rescue beacon if necessary, because of scorn which may be dumped on them by anybody.
Rescue should always be free so people don't have to die out there because they can't afford the ride.

It will be interesting to hear from them how they went and lets hope they put up some pics in the gallery.

ff

[geoskid]

Any info at all would be appreciated. Even the local psychiatrists number for when we get back to Hobart

Cheers

I hope just the one visit will be enough
For me, the cost of the rescue is'nt an issue - glad they are OK. Can't help but admire their sense of adventure.
You can bet your boots (I hope) there will be a lot of self analysis of this adventure.
Looking forward to a trip report, hopefully with some of the thoughts happening as the trip progressed

[tasadam]

Just a bit of a thought, they were at it for nearly 10 days and were rescued "near" Federation Peak. Looking at google maps, terrain view, that's a fair whack of untracked terrain they covered.
So, that makes me even more eager to hear their stories. Also hoping for photos.

[ILUVSWTAS]

Pretty sure when the media says "near Federation Peak" it could be anywhere from the mouth of New River Lagoon to Geeves Bluff. Most non bushwalking people have still heard of Fedders.

[Azza]

There is a bit of a write up on the Mercury web site today, with references to this forum.

http://www.themercury.com.au/article/20 ... -news.html

Ten days to cover that terrain sounds very optimistic to me and all that rain the other weekend
would not have helped at all. Closest thing to compare to would be Vanishing Falls - ten days for that
would be fairly optimisic as well.
Apparently they couldn't back out down New River Lagoon.
But Southern Ranges over PB would have still been an escape option?

[Phil]

There is a bit of a write up on the Mercury web site today, with references to this forum.

http://www.themercury.com.au/article/20 ... -news.html

That article is fantastic.......half of the content is quoted directly from this forum!

Great work members!

[Nuts]

"I agree with those who mentioned our 'bubble-wrapped culture'. Seems if you do anything even mildly out of the average Joe's comfort zone you are deemed irresponsible".

This (ridiculous) quote, cant see it anywhere?

(Your only deemed 'irresponsible' if things dont work out. There's a good chance that you were.... If all precautions have been taken and still things have gone wrong then fair enough, even then, no one else is responsible... Perhaps it is only the criticism of others that keeps more people from getting in too deep)

I agree with everything Adam said about the cost for rescue but I really do wonder about this also:

I wonder if hey would have attempted this if a PLB was not an option.

[Ent]

Interesting reading so far. A few points though.

1. Though most likely is the group we are not certain yet. Been a few notable examples of assumptions been rather wrong.

2. MIAB is funded out of a specific charge on motor vehicle users while Search and Rescue is funded from general revenue so even staunch non bush walkers pay. Do we want to see a levy on park fees for such things?

3. Cost is a tricky thing to arrive at as Search and Rescue teams need regular training exercises if no genuine emergencies occur so bit hard for anyone to arrive at the true cost. However, it is still a cost and all walkers should consider the social responsibility angle of putting themselves into a position to need such services.

4. Hate to think any party in trouble is considering anything more than their immediate needs so great caution in comments needs to be considered to avoid people pushing past limits causing a search and rescue to become a recovery exercise just avoid "scorn" and potential embarrassment when they get back.

5. Scub and snow are amazing things that can stuff up any reasonable estimate of time taken plus the wear and tear on gear and the human body if your experience is mainly track walking or off track walking in open terrain. For the dedicated scrub ferrets this appears to be a tricky thing to explain to newbies so maybe a few photographs might help assuming you can get at your camera and not consumed by an overwhelming desire to get the hell out of it. At well over six foot I have no interest in scrub bashing as if someone smaller is worming through things this means I am stuck Hence it does not take much to convince me on how difficult some trips can be but for the young and enthusiastic more effort is required as most of us at a certain age did not pay much head to advice. The video of the ascent to Federation Peak is an example of what a person needs to be prepared to experience so maybe one on getting up a 1 point scrub bound peak

6. This trip did generate a bit of discussion on the "force or will" theme on another thread or two and yet again this is another example where nature does not give a hoot about your feeling towards it so can kick like a mule if you chose to "push the limits" too much. It always worries me when people seek to "challenge" themselves as this is a dangerous mindset. No problem with wanting to get to a place and dealing with the difficulties faced in doing this but doing something with another strong motive of "proving to oneself" is thinking that underlines the term harbinger that a potential scrub berserker needs to understand. A harbinger is from ancient Danish and a term given to a leader that leads his men in to trouble (generally death in the Vikings case) seeking glory alone. The ancient Danes fully expected leaders to take on difficult challenges and their lore loved tragic failures done gloriously but the purpose must be more than seeking glory alone but include some useful purpose such as navigating a new trade or pillaging route.

7. I do hope to see a report from the group and explain what they encountered and also the "navigational difficulty" issue plus how well the Spot worked and maybe future "adventurers" could do what the cannibal run crew did in opening up the tracking plots for others to watch. This showed day by day the limited progress made by a team of well equipped and experienced people on untracked terrain dealing with scrub and geographical features.

Cheers Brett

PS on point one is the Mercury making the assumption or do they know something that we do not. Note, they could not contact the group.

[Ent]

"I agree with those who mentioned our 'bubble-wrapped culture'. Seems if you do anything even mildly out of the average Joe's comfort zone you are deemed irresponsible".
This (ridiculous) quote, cant see it anywhere?

Hi Nuts it was in another thread as extracted below.

Re: Is Off Track Walking Dying?

Postby breminator98 » Tue 10 Nov, 2009 3:25 pm
As a Gen Y i can definitely agree that the average age of bushwalking clubs is what keeps me out of them. The ones that I have been in have been full of FANTASTIC people, but there's nothing like hanging out with those your age. As for the off-track walking, I can't think of anything better. For example, on the 26th i am leaving for Tasmania to head up federation via new river. Can't get much more off track than that.

Facebook, texting, emails are how I organise most trips. I can't say I've been in the bushwalking scene long enough to notice any trends about whether off-track walking is dying off, but if it is I agree with those who mentioned our 'bubble-wrapped culture'. Seems if you do anything even mildly out of the average joe's comfort zone you are deemed irresponsible. I'm sure my sociology lecturer would have a field day analysing this.

Dave

[tasadam]

Yeah, I gotta say it would be pretty cool to hear that the guys from the forum here that set off from the ACT up New River to Federation were actually okay and progressing well, and that some other party from ACT had chosen to do the same route at the same time and it was them that were rescued (also carrying a SPOT as opposed to a PLB). But I doubt it.

[Ent]

Yeah, I gotta say it would be pretty cool to hear that the guys from the forum here that set off from the ACT up New River to Federation were actually okay and progressing well, and that some other party from ACT had chosen to do the same route at the same time and it was them that were rescued (also carrying a SPOT as opposed to a PLB). But I doubt it.

I agree tasadam chances as remote as the area they were rescued from but as Doctor Livingston in a letter to the times wrote "Reports of my death have been great exaggerated". And one notable Russian Admiral responsible for a massive defeat took great care in thanking every one that wrote growing obituaries for him and comparing this with what they had written when he was "alive" due to a newspaper assuming a death notice was his.

Just maybe being a bit cautious but having experience media reporting first hand well aware what gets traded as fact when it is fiction built on assumptions and here-say.

Cheers Brett

[Nuts]

Probably ok to talk about these incidents in general though. Even better if it wasnt Dave's group and nobody to be offended. Like my comment on that quote and how it is used, it doesnt really point to any one person or assume that people dont learn through experience or that attitudes don't change.

[kramster]

Search and Rescue is not just for Bushwalkers...

If we are talking about tax-payers money being "wasted" by rescuing bushwalkers... I wonder if the self same helicoptor and rescue team would be out helping Recreational-Fisherman Bob who capsize his boat off Bruny Island, multiple car-accidents on the Midlands highway, or Farmer Joe falling off his tractor near Oatlands.

I for one am pretty glad there is such a Search AND Rescue service "just in case" anyone in Tasmania needs it in an emergency.

[SurlyDave]

Just maybe being a bit cautious but having experience media reporting first hand well aware what gets traded as fact when it is fiction built on assumptions and here-say.

I'm the reporter who wrote the yarn in the Mercury. No assumption on my part at all. It's definitely them. I confirmed it with the police last night and checked with them what I'd been able to read in this forum. Just to be extra sure I spoke to one of the party this morning.

[Ent]

Search and Rescue is not just for Bushwalkers...

If we are talking about tax-payers money being "wasted" by rescuing bushwalkers... I wonder if the self same helicoptor and rescue team would be out helping Recreational-Fisherman Bob who capsize his boat off Bruny Island, multiple car-accidents on the Midlands highway, or Farmer Joe falling off his tractor near Oatlands.

I for one am pretty glad there is such a Search AND Rescue service "just in case" anyone in Tasmania needs it in an emergency.

I agree but lets make one point clear. If you are involved in a motor vehicle accident the full cost is charged back to the MAIB and such costs are huge so hence the massive premiums we pay to register a car. From a mere accounting perspective the cost of rescue is very small compared to the cost of not doing it so it is in the community's financial interest to rescue people. But like any service it is nice people using it have done their best to avoid the need. I like the "no fault" approach simply because it takes money out of the equation. Trouble with user pay ambulance services is people avoid calling for help because they are worried over the personal cost and these cause greater cost through increased complications and deaths. Now for the idiots that ring with hoaxes or ridiculous issues (pick me an my pizza up and take me home) then criminal not civil controls should be the means to deal with them.

Cheers Brett

PS Thanks SurlyDave for that confirmation and it appears that the site is making inroads everywhere Now on the quote on "bubble-wrapped" and Nuts comment of context

[ILUVSWTAS]

Just maybe being a bit cautious but having experience media reporting first hand well aware what gets traded as fact when it is fiction built on assumptions and here-say.

I'm the reporter who wrote the yarn in the Mercury. No assumption on my part at all. It's definitely them. I confirmed it with the police last night and checked with them what I'd been able to read in this forum. Just to be extra sure I spoke to one of the party this morning.

How were they Surly??

[tasadam]

How were they Surly??

Surly Dave Killick has been busy - he's posted a new article...

http://www.themercury.com.au/article/20 ... -news.html

[ILUVSWTAS]

Nine months of planning had gone into the trip, which the man said hadn't been attempted before to his knowledge...

Interesting, Im pretty sure Olegas attempted this route, Maybe he came down from the big F this way not up.. im not sure?

[Phil]

Good to hear that they're all ok (so it seems). Would love to be at the pub with them having a beer and listening to their tales!

[tasadam]

Interesting, Im pretty sure Olegas attempted this route, Maybe he came down from the big F this way not up.. im not sure?

I know Olegas went up to Feders from Old river (Melaleuca), mentioned in the SW book by Chapman I think. But unaware of any records he went up New River as well. Not sure tho.