Therm-a-Rest NeoAir Sleeping Mat

[Jellybean]

So I guess the answer will be "rock concert" strength ear plugs as I really like my Strolling Mates
corvus

I think "rock strength" ear plugs are a must for any travelling! I don't get a good night's sleep without them. It's the one way of providing a constant, no matter where you are (or how noisy it is!).

[dclayw]

This is an old thread I know but I thought I'd add my 2c to this. I bought the regular NeoAir from mountain-trail on ebay, they are selling a few of them at a pretty decent price, compared to the traditional stores anyway.

I have been using a 3/4 thermarest ultralite for years (and a 3/4 guidelite before that) and never got a good nights sleep on either of them (guidelite was better; thicker, but heavier and bulkier). Really interested in the NeoAir when I first saw it, about 100g lighter then my ultralite, supposedly more comfortable, and packs quite a bit smaller then the ultralite.

I decided on the regular (full length) rather then 3/4 as I thought the drop off at the knees would be just too great. I tried to simulate that by putting my ultralite on top of the guidelite, it felt horrible. Only reason for 3/4 in the first place was to reduce weight and pack size, but the regular NeoAir is smaller and lighter anyway.

Not out in the field yet, another NZ trip coming up in a few weeks where it will get a real good test out. I'll post back when I return.

First impressions:

I read a thousand reviews on it before buying but still unbelievably small size and weight, even when it's still in its cardboard box.

Feels very fragile, very thin material. I'd be hesitant to use it anywhere outside the tent. I'm only 80kg and it just feels like it's going to pop any second when you lie on it. Must feel a bit scarier if you're 100kg+.

Took 25 breaths to blow it up to bouncy. It's no big deal but it is something I've never had to do before so yes it is a little bit of a pain.

The crinkly feel that a lot of people report is a non-issue (for me anyway), it is certainly not noisy.

Pretty comfortable, but I was expecting a lot from the reports I read. I did have a 30 minute snooze on it, with my thermarest pillow, and yes it seems as if it's going to be a great improvement on anything else I've had. My thermarest pillow can now sit on top of the mat and my feet still don't hang over the end of the mat. With my 3/4 mats I always had to have the pillow hanging off the end of the mat with a fleece or something stuffed under it. Those days are gone I hope. (I cannot sleep anywhere without a pillow, one luxury I never gave up).

25 breaths of air is too much, too bouncy. So I let it down a bit and much more comfortable gain.

The mat is the same width as my 3/4 mats (51cm) but it feels narrower, I think because you are higher off the ground so an arm resting on the floor is so much more noticeable. I don't think the perceived narrowness will be a problem.

A PITA to roll up, but I guess I will get better at it. I always had to roll my 3/4 mats twice to get all the air out and packed size I wanted but that was fast and easy to do. This NeoAir takes quite a bit longer and I think most definitely has to be rolled twice. One thing is for sure, at least you can pack it down to the same size as new, could never do that with self inflating mats. It also doesn't expand once it's in the stuff sack, like the self inflaters do. I often had a heck of time getting my ultralite out of its stuff sack.

I'm using a Sea-to-Summit XXS stuff sack and the Neo fits in there with a little room to spare.

The valve on thermarest self inflating mats are at one of the corners in the same plane as the mat. The valve on the Neo sticks up at right angles from the top of the mat. It doesn't seem to get in the way, but it would certainly be much easier to damage it. It does get in the way a bit when placing the mat in the stuff sack as you have to bend it out of the way, which can't be good in the long term as it's stressing it a little. This was never a problem with self inflating mats. I'm guessing they had to place the valve here as the traditional location might have made the mat more prone to popping.

Anyway, I'm off for another snooze.

[kanangra]

I used mine over Christmas and found it wery good. I bought the small and found it sufficient. Unbelievably light at about 230g and the most comfortable mat I've used by far. Very compact. Rolls up about the size of a coke can. I just use an elastic band to roll up have not bothered with a stuff sac.

K.

[Jellybean]

I've also found my Neo to be really comfortable, in the right conditions. For me, it's best when the temperature is greater than 5 degrees C (due to it's lack of insulation). I put my wet weather gear and jacket under it for one night when it was much colder than expected (sub zero) but was still cold, even with a - 5 bag. Am planning on buying an Exped Downmat 7 for walks were cooler temps are expected.

The reported crinkly noise was also a non-issue for both me and my tent mate.

[Lizzy]

I also bought the regular and feel very decadent! I love sleeping on my side and usually have sore hips from the pack so it is wonderful to be able to lie on them comfortably. Have not noticed any excess crinkly and also use a rubber band around it. Would not use it outside the tent.... forsee expensive, useless mat! Can't beat for size and weight!!

[dclayw]

Back from NZ for about a week now and thought I would follow up on my impressions on this sleeping mat now that I have spent 2 weeks on it in the field. Used it in various conditions from pretty cold (around 5 degrees, cold for me anyway) to pretty hot. I'd say around 5 degrees is where you start feeling the cold coming through the mat due to lack of insulation. (I only had a 3 season bag for this trip, normally I take a 4 season bag to NZ). Slept mainly in the tent with one night in a rock bivvy. I certainly felt the cold coming through the mat when sleeping on the ground under a rock. I did use a black plastic sheet under the mat (I use this as a ground sheet for my tent) and I guess that helped keep out the cold a little, but the main reason for the groundsheet was to protect the mat from sharp stones etc. Even at 5 degrees I was not cold as such, I just had to put my thermals on and it took a little longer for my sleeping bag to warm up. The mat does feel very fragile in the field and I would never use it straight on the ground, just being cautious as this mat is expensive.

This mat is the most comfortable thing I have ever slept on in the field. I got some of the best nights sleep I have ever had in a tent (or probably a hut for that matter). A couple of times we had to set up on uneven ground and the mat handles that pretty well too, a lot better then my self inflatable ultralite would have anyway. It is very comfortable and I'm glad I got the full length mat. I was a bit unsure about full length at first as I have only ever used 3/4. I was concerned about the room it would take up in the tent and the hassle blowing it up and rolling it up. But the extra comfort for me was well worth it.

It takes around 25 breaths to blow up as I said before and although I did get a little light-headed blowing it up after a hard days tramping, this is only a minor hassle really. I got a lot better at folding it up. I used the roll-twice method as that is the only way I could get all the air out, this thing holds quite a lot of air. Rolling twice doesn't really take much longer and the end result is nice compact rolled mat. It rolls up to the same packed size every time, (unlike the self inflatables). Even the full length takes up very little room in the pack.

The crinkly feel a lot of people report seems be one of the biggest perceived downsides to this mat. After I bought the mat I went into a couple of outdoor stores and asked about the mat and the crinkly noise was the first thing mentioned. It is a complete non-issue. Some people must be light sleepers, my sleeping bag makes more noise.

I mentioned that the location of the valve on these mats could be an issue but I found no problem whatsoever in the field.

Overall I'd highly recommend the mat to anyone looking for a better nights sleep. If you're happy with 3/4 then you can also drastically reduce size and weight, although the full length is also pretty small and light (smaller and lighter then my 3/4 ultralite). Note that if you want to go with the 3/4 there is quite a drop off at the knees as this mat sits high off the ground. For cold conditions (anything less then 0-5 degrees) I'd say you definitely need something under the mat.

[Jellybean]

Back from NZ for about a week now and thought I would follow up on my impressions on this sleeping mat now that I have spent 2 weeks on it in the field. Used it in various conditions from pretty cold (around 5 degrees, cold for me anyway) to pretty hot. I'd say around 5 degrees is where you start feeling the cold coming through the mat due to lack of insulation. (I only had a 3 season bag for this trip, normally I take a 4 season bag to NZ). Slept mainly in the tent with one night in a rock bivvy. I certainly felt the cold coming through the mat when sleeping on the ground under a rock. I did use a black plastic sheet under the mat (I use this as a ground sheet for my tent) and I guess that helped keep out the cold a little, but the main reason for the groundsheet was to protect the mat from sharp stones etc.

Hi dclayw,

Thanks for the thorough review. I've also found I get cold with the Neo under about 5 degrees (due to its lack of insulation). I've recently bought a Gossamer Gear 1/8' Thin lite foam pad (cost about $10 USD, weighs about 40g, about 150cm long from memory, so not quite the length of the Regular Neo - 178cm) to put under the mat when I'm expecting colder nights. (Thanks Franco, I saw your tip on another forum). I'm hoping this will help provide a warmer night's sleep on colder nights that don't require a Downmat. Will report back after it's had a bit of use.

(Completely agree with your other comments re comfort, taking care with a groundsheet, etc.)

Cheers,

JB

[photohiker]

Back from NZ for about a week now and thought I would follow up on my impressions on this sleeping mat now that I have spent 2 weeks on it in the field. Used it in various conditions from pretty cold (around 5 degrees, cold for me anyway) to pretty hot. I'd say around 5 degrees is where you start feeling the cold coming through the mat due to lack of insulation. (I only had a 3 season bag for this trip, normally I take a 4 season bag to NZ). Slept mainly in the tent with one night in a rock bivvy. I certainly felt the cold coming through the mat when sleeping on the ground under a rock. I did use a black plastic sheet under the mat (I use this as a ground sheet for my tent) and I guess that helped keep out the cold a little, but the main reason for the groundsheet was to protect the mat from sharp stones etc.

Hi dclayw,

Thanks for the thorough review. I've also found I get cold with the Neo under about 5 degrees (due to its lack of insulation). I've recently bought a Gossamer Gear 1/8' Thin lite foam pad (cost about $10 USD, weighs about 40g, about 150cm long from memory, so not quite the length of the Regular Neo - 178cm) to put under the mat when I'm expecting colder nights. (Thanks Franco, I saw your tip on another forum). I'm hoping this will help provide a warmer night's sleep on colder nights that don't require a Downmat. Will report back after it's had a bit of use.

(Completely agree with your other comments re comfort, taking care with a groundsheet, etc.)

Cheers,

JB

Follow up to this.

As you may know, I'm off to Scotland in about a week, and they have had a pretty cold winter over there, so I am expecting it to be quite cold in parts still. Unfortunately Gossamer Gear have been out of the thinlite mats for quite a while, so I have had to make other arrangements. What I found when I started to do the research on this, is that the ThinLite pads are made from 1/8" Evazote foam - its a closed cell foam made with nitrogen bubbles. Researching Evazote foams in Australia led me to Algeos.com.au which are a podiatry supplier - the foam is used to make footbeds and such. I was able to buy a 1m x 1.5m 3mm Evazote sheet from them for about $20 plus shipping (they're in Melbourne) I don't know if its the same grade as what GG is selling, but it feels warm when you put your hand on it and it weighs very little. I cut it a little wider than the GG version and it weighs just 80g - I could get 2 GG pads out of one Evazote sheet - I don't know if you would save any money over the GG ones but at least it's available in Australia.

I just checked, GG Thinlight are back in stock at GG now.

evazote.jpg (24.28 KiB) Viewed 18260 times

My colour is better though

The other noticeable change is that the neoair and the evazote seem to grip each other quite well. With Franco's silicone dots and the evazote, I think the days of sliding around the inside of the tent are over!

[alliecat]

Hi Michael,

Your pad looks great - thanks for the tip on where to get evazote from is Aus. Hope you have a great time in Scotland and don't forget we expect a full report posted on BWT when you get back!

Cheers,
Alliecat

[Nuts]

Iv'e had the neo for a while now. They are very good, (comfortable) (though essentially an overpriced wine bladder).
Some other similar options, we have been using with the exped mats:
covers: (these come as a cover only or with (one or) two layers of foam , makes them very warm (though bulkier) http://www.moontrail.com/exped-mat-cover-pro.php
Mats: (these can have a strip cut out and be resown easily enough) http://www.moontrail.com/exped-multimat.php

Ark, scotland laddie safe travels!

[flatfoot]

Follow up to this.

As you may know, I'm off to Scotland in about a week, and they have had a pretty cold winter over there, so I am expecting it to be quite cold in parts still. Unfortunately Gossamer Gear have been out of the thinlite mats for quite a while, so I have had to make other arrangements. What I found when I started to do the research on this, is that the ThinLite pads are made from 1/8" Evazote foam - its a closed cell foam made with nitrogen bubbles. Researching Evazote foams in Australia led me to Algeos.com.au which are a podiatry supplier - the foam is used to make footbeds and such. I was able to buy a 1m x 1.5m 3mm Evazote sheet from them for about $20 plus shipping (they're in Melbourne) I don't know if its the same grade as what GG is selling, but it feels warm when you put your hand on it and it weighs very little. I cut it a little wider than the GG version and it weighs just 80g - I could get 2 GG pads out of one Evazote sheet - I don't know if you would save any money over the GG ones but at least it's available in Australia.

PhotoHiker - great research! I'm keen to find out how it works out for you.

Are you able to post a photo of your evazote foam rolled up next to the neoair rolled up? Is your neoair the regular size?

Thanks!

[Franco]

Hi Michael
Your type of combination seems to have been popular over in the US this winter.
I think that the difference in Evazote is just the thickness and the colour.
Works the same way with the "blue" mat too. (for grip...)
BTW, Henry Shires should be at the TGO Challenge. Likely with the Moment, he has a new bit to try out with this one.
Franco

[nickL]

hi franco

being a moment owner i would love to know what knew bit henry has devised to trial on the moment

cheers

nick

[ninjapuppet]

Micheal,

Your neoair appears yellow. do they come in yellow? or is that because the green neoair on a blue background plays tricks with the camera's sensor, and washes out the blue away from the green, making it appear yellow?

Also, just had a look at that podiatry website, and they want a minimum of $40 spend....
i coudlnt figure out what else i'd need from a podiatrist, so i gave it a miss for now.

[photohiker]

Micheal,
Your neoair appears yellow. do they come in yellow?

Mine is a green-tinged yellow (or is that a yellow-tinged green?) In any case, there is no choice. Photo is from the phone, so no colour correction employed.

Thanks for all the thoughts, I will certainly do a trip write-up to post here on my return, its been a journey just doing all the planning, and the long term focus has been challenging and fun (not to mention the excuse to indulge in some gear that I would probably not have gotten otherwise) I have had to change my ideas according to the conditions over there, and also the non-arrival of key items that forced a change in packs which has thankfully ended agreeably. Only minor details remain at this point. (just as well, there are precious little days available now) Drybags and pack liner bought today, the S2S SilNylon are my choice. Also finally managed to source a Thermarest Fast and Lite repair kit for the Neoair.

Franco, yes I know Henry is on the Challenge, I sent him the entry form. Hoping to catch up with him although I have no idea of his route.

flatfoot, the evazote can be rolled up or folded, but if you look at the photo, it's about 4 times the length of the folded and rolled neoair, and about 8cm diameter when rolled. I will probably just carry it on the outside of the pack and use it as a sit pad for breaks. Neoair is regular size, so it is about 3-400mm longer than the Evazote.

[flatfoot]

flatfoot, the evazote can be rolled up or folded, but if you look at the photo, it's about 4 times the length of the folded and rolled neoair, and about 8cm diameter when rolled. I will probably just carry it on the outside of the pack and use it as a sit pad for breaks. Neoair is regular size, so it is about 3-400mm longer than the Evazote.

Thanks for the info.

The GG site is calculating USD $33.50 just for the shipping when the product itself is only USD $10.00!

Algeos have a minimum order of $40.00 in their online store. The price of the Blue Evazote in the size you mentioned is $19.75. Did you purchase online or use some other method? Whilst I have flat feet, I am not in need of podiatry products

[photohiker]

haha. I bought some yaxtrax from them to try out in my next snow trip.

This is a candidate for a group buy if there are enough people interested. To get over $40 you'd need 3 sheets which would make 6 GG sized mats...

[flatfoot]

haha. I bought some yaxtrax from them to try out in my next snow trip.

This is a candidate for a group buy if there are enough people interested. To get over $40 you'd need 3 sheets which would make 6 GG sized mats...

That's probably a worthwhile buy anyway and they'd last a lifetime with infrequent usage.

[Ent]

Hi Photohiker

Bit curious for the need, is it protection, increased warmth rating or fall back for the dreaded punctured mat? What is the weight of such an item? Would it also be usable for keeping ones posteriora dry from wet ground?

Cheers Brett

[photohiker]

Hi Photohiker

Bit curious for the need, is it protection, increased warmth rating or fall back for the dreaded punctured mat? What is the weight of such an item? Would it also be usable for keeping ones posteriora dry from wet ground?

Cheers Brett

Brett,

It's for extra thermal insulation. It weighs 80 grams and it will not transmit water, so yes it will keep one's posterior dry from wet ground.

I have the Neoair repair kit, so even if I do get a puncture I'd hope to recover...

[ninjapuppet]

how much do your neoairs weigh? it states on the box that it weighs 410g for the regular size.
After trying a few online retailers who refused to sell to me, i just got 2 from ebay for around $180 delivered (each). beats paying $330 for it at paddys. my local paddy pallin store doesnt have it in stock anyway.

just arrived in the mail today, but strangely enough, they both weigh differently by 9 grams!?!?!

one weighs: 395g + 15g stuffsack = 410grams
The other weighs: 404 + 15g stuffsack = 419 grams. (i double checked with another set of scales)

my friend also has one, that weighs exactly 410g incl sac.
I read some forums, who also state that it weighs exactly 410grams.
considering how everyone else got exactly 410g, I wonder where my extra 9 grams comes from....

maybe an odd one out.

[Lizzy]

Hi all,
Found this;
http://www.essentialflyfisher.com.au/xc ... 308&page=1
is this the same evazote foam-only $5 though not sure of the length...

[photohiker]

Hi Lizzy,

I found a similar product via google when I was originally chasing down Evazote, they were small sheets and the supplier couldn't supply larger sizes. Because it is so light and it floats, fly fishers use it for making parts of their hand made lures - they'd never use square metres of it for that though...

[photohiker]

how much do your neoairs weigh? it states on the box that it weighs 410g for the regular size.

Mine without stuffsac or rubber band weighs 406g, so your 395g one is light.

I guess it may depend on the trimming of the mat, or perhaps how many times it has been used - its possible they pick up a bit of moisture from your breath with each use so after many uses they could pick up quite a bit of weight I guess. water being 1g/mL the difference between ours is equivalent to 11mL of water. Mine has been used for about 14 nights I guess.

[jez_au]

I've slept on my Neoair now 35 nights. I was initially very impressed with it's compact size, low weight and high comfort. However my mattress has been plagued with slowly deflating during the night. I have so far found five small holes or tears, all in more or less the same space, and I think all from one night's camping on a rocky saddle. I have found these holes by inflating the mattress and placing it underwater in a bathtub, much like finding a puncture in a bike tube. I've used sticky bike tube patches to repair the holes. However, I note that some holes are so small they are somewhat tempermental to find, they can be there one moment and apparently not the next. It seems they only appear when the mattress is twisted in a certain way. If I inflate it and put a couple of heavy boxes on it overnight, to simulate a body weight, it does not seem to deflate at all.

I can find no more holes, but my mattress goes down from full inflation to below comfort level in 4 to 6 hours. From what I can tell, neither the valve, seams or repair patches leak, but clearly somewhere the mattress is leaking.

Has anyone had this trouble, if so how did they fix it?

I bought the item on ebay so a warranty job is not possible.

After returning from another five night trip with it, I don't think I can bear to take it away again. It might be light, but it is too heavy for just two thin bits of plastic to sleep on.

[ninjapuppet]

wow, that dont sound too good!

maybe if you can send it to cascade designs they might be able to charge you a small fee for the repair/replace? worth a try?
Its not a cheap mat, and it would do good to your confidence in the brand, if they could somehow do something about it.

Although kinda expected, i still find it quite shocking.

did you use any tent footprint whilst camping?

[Jellybean]

I can find no more holes, but my mattress goes down from full inflation to below comfort level in 4 to 6 hours. From what I can tell, neither the valve, seams or repair patches leak, but clearly somewhere the mattress is leaking.

Has anyone had this trouble, if so how did they fix it?

See Franco's 15th Oct post on this thread.

If you read a lot of reviews you will come across posts about deflation or slow leaks. In most cases that has to do with Boyle's law and not a defect. It is just more noticeable with the Neo because it has no foam or down inside, just thin space blanket type material.

I've noticed mine does deflate a little as the temperature cools. I just ensure I give it a few extra puffs before hitting the sleeping bag for the night. That's worked for me to date.

Cheers,

JB

P.S. So far so good with the addition of the 40g Gossamer Gear 1/8' Thin lite foam pad under the Neo for extra insulation (and puncture protection). Should get a good test next weekend (2 nights in Kanangara NP, temperatures should be around freezing overnight. Previously, without the Thin lite, I've started getting cold with the Neo at around 5 degrees C).

[Franco]

Here is an article about repairing the Neo Air :
http://rooinater.blogspot.com/2009/09/n ... rview.html

Deflation.
At White Blaze there was an heated (...) debate about this. Some claim that it has to do with Boyle's law , others say it is Charles's law.
Whatever the case might be it remains a fact that if you blow up a mat with warm breath, once that air cools down it will "compress".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles%27s_law

Of course you could also have a slow leak. In this case the mat will go totally flat.
Franco

[nickL]

hey jez

sorry to hear the neo has no air - its like matrix without slow motion action shots (sorry about that! )

is it still leaking very slowly - maybe more really slow leaking holes the ones you cant find without pressure - maybe try lying on the mat when it is in the bath - LOL

seriously, maybe inflate 3/4 thn put one end in the bath and roll th other end up to increase pressure

lateral thinking here - what about applying a very thin layer of silicone to the bottom of the mat - kill many birds with one stone - stronger and no slipping down the tent

hope the walk was good - you should post a report with photos - or just post your blogg address

cheers

nick

[jez_au]

Thanks for your replies (Hi Nick!)

It is most definately NOT Boyles Law. I am certainly aware of what you are talking about, I inflate it when I set up camp, and top again just before bed time because it does go down a little (and it would contribute a little more overnight, but not this extent).

I have taken to inflating it to the highest possible pressure, within 4-6 hours almost all of my body is lying on the ground, surrounded by a limply inflated mattress (maybe at 20-30% capacity). On sand it is not so bad, but a hard rocky surface is horrid (or hard sleeping platform ewwk).

Yes I have used a footprint under my tent, pretty sure the holes come from a single night though.

I tried increasing pressure whilst underwater by rolling an end, no luck there either. I have checked every square inch this way, twisting it as well.

Maybe a lie-on whilst in a swimming pool is in order, another person armed with a snorkel mask.... Sigh....

http://jez-magneticnorth.blogspot.com/ (current travels)
http://jez-hiking.blogspot.com/ (past trips before current travel)