Goose Down

[commando]

Some real Goose Down up close and personal after visiting the Walter Smith Reserve in Riddells Creek
only the very brave dare venture in there with a loaf of bread as the 40 odd geese launch at you.
Every bushwalkers favourite material.

g1.jpg

[Mark F]

Sorry to disappoint. All but the partially shown cluster at the bottom of the second photo are feather, not down. Down does not have the well developed central quill/spine. You can pick up clues about the down/feather blend in products by rubbing the filling between your fingers (through the fabric). The more quill you feel the more feather and less down.

[Franco]

Not even the worst bed quilt would be advertised as down with feathers of that kind.
It would be called feather doona or similar.
This is down

description_image_description_image_down-vs-feather.jpg (24.41 KiB) Viewed 15237 times

to be a bit more specific, when you get the specs from a reputable brand with the tipycal 90/10 mix (90% down/10% feathers) by feathers they mean that it is possible that up to 10% of the content will look like the feather on the right, at worst. (the smaller one....)

[CraigVIC]

NatureHike is advertising a 1000FP jacket (with attached picture of lab report on the fill power). Ethics aside, is this FP possible?

https://h5.aliexpress.com/item/4000367324640.html

[commando]

I know its feather i just wanted to find the forum police.

[CraigVIC]

I wouldn't be feeding bread in this day and age but while ducks are fun geese have always been a nasty business. Then there's the swans...

[Moondog55]

Geese do roast up nicely tho or make wonderful cassoulet

[Franco]

If correcting wrong information makes me a forum policeman, so be it.
At least I did not comment about feeding bread to the birds , but of course that comment was also intentionaly posted to provoke wasn't it (not) ?
There are forum sections for intentionaly funny or would be funny posts.

[Lamont]

NatureHike is advertising a 1000FP jacket (with attached picture of lab report on the fill power). Ethics aside, is this FP possible?

https://h5.aliexpress.com/item/4000367324640.html

Montbell (Arcteryx) have been selling this stuff-what Euros would call 950 for a while I believe. Whether Naturehike or any other company is using it I suppose might be up for conjecture? Montbell charges like a bull for it and the Naturehike one is 'created in it's style'.
On another point I did read somewhere that up to about the 850CUIN (900FP) was the upper limit for obtaining both easily and ethically sourced down.
I wonder if that's true?

[CraigVIC]

Yes, I had read the same so it surprised me to see such an ambitious claim, especially with the little report added. I'm not intending to find out in either case but there has to be an upper limit given there's no new geese under the sun.

[Lamont]

Climashield Apex is good stuff. Not sure of the toxicity in the long run though-so far I think (?) seems positive.
Is that the stuff of the future? Wish we could buy it in Oz.

[Mark F]

Be aware that the US system for testing the filling power of down delivers a higher number than the European version of the test - about a difference of about 100 at the upper ends of the scale. What can also affect the results is the pre conditioning of the down for the test including making sure it is very (unnaturally) dry.

[Franco]

Fom the WM FAQ
"Western Mountaineering is specialized enough that we can ask for our suppliers to give us the best down they can get. This creates an average yield that is almost always above 900 fill power. We state 850+ on our products because even though the down tests out at 900 or over, the ‘real’ loft power is different. Once the down is inside a bag or jacket baffle it is compressed slightly by the fabric. Loft is also affected by real world humidity conditions that are not present during loft testing."

[Franco]

I wouldn't be feeding bread in this day and age but while ducks are fun geese have always been a nasty business. Then there's the swans...

same for potato chips.
Still so many think they do birds a favour feeding them stuff like that.

[CraigVIC]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-17/ ... n/11316984

I saw these geese not long before their relocation. I'm not afraid of birds but they were incredibly aggressive and persistent. And the people having their important visitor experience were feeding them not only potato chips but also lollies etc. A disturbing scene all round

[north-north-west]

NatureHike is advertising a 1000FP jacket (with attached picture of lab report on the fill power). Ethics aside, is this FP possible?

My S2S ApII came with a copy of the test certificate for the batch from which the down was taken. It was somewhere over 950 (EUN).

[commando]

Photos update

[CraigVIC]

My S2S ApII came with a copy of the test certificate for the batch from which the down was taken. It was somewhere over 950 (EUN).

Do you think it's a straight relationship NNW, I mean if you have 600 fp and 900fp is the 900 150% warmer for the same weight?

[north-north-west]

No idea. Just because I act like a goose sometimes does not make me any sort of expert on goose down.

[Franco]

From several posts I have seen in various forums, including results from tests, it seems that you would need twice as much of the 500 to get the same insulation you get from the 1000 (I am using those numbers for convinience...) This would be the loft is everything scenario.
However in practice the 900 fill in high humidity could collapse a lot more than the one from a 600 fill giving you less insulation than it should. The same could be from dirt/sweat/oils.

[Moondog55]

It's also possible that the needs of garments are very different to the needs of sleeping bags and that the "old" standard of 650FP down is still the optimum for clothing.
In my own real world testing of my own sleeping bag over 3 decades I found very little performance difference between 900FP down and the old "Superdown" that was probably only 550FP, weight difference was the big factor. I did however Nikwax my bag when I bought it on the advice of the maker [Steve from J&H]

[Moondog55]

Also I think Commandos first post was very much "Tongue in cheek" and written to get a response; which seems to have worked.
Those geese look prime candidates for the pot IMO the best place for them.

[Franco]

I had a look at what PHD is using now.
For their -59c Omega suit they use 900 fill with a 950 fill option that, according to PHD, adds 4c to the rating.

[luckylucy]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but...
I am debating on whether I should purchase Macpac's Ember HyperDRY™ Down Jacket (women's).
https://www.macpac.com.au/clearance/wom ... RANCE.html
Mostly, I plan to wear it leisurely around town and commute in colder months in NZ, but also for the occasional bushwalk in winter and travel. The price seems to be of fairly good value as it is on clearance now for $300.
I love to be toasty warm but would the specs of this jacket be too unnecessary for me?
Some specs:
Fill Type 90/10 RDS HyperDRY™ Goose Down
Fill Power (cuin) 700
Fill Weight (g) 245 (Size 10)
I'm an absolute novice in the down jacket department so would love to hear your opinions, recommendations and whether you think it would be a suitable purchase.
Thank you!

[wildwanderer]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this but...
I am debating on whether I should purchase Macpac's Ember HyperDRY™ Down Jacket (women's).
https://www.macpac.com.au/clearance/wom ... RANCE.html
Mostly, I plan to wear it leisurely around town and commute in colder months in NZ, but also for the occasional bushwalk in winter and travel. The price seems to be of fairly good value as it is on clearance now for $300.
I love to be toasty warm but would the specs of this jacket be too unnecessary for me?
Some specs:
Fill Type 90/10 RDS HyperDRY™ Goose Down
Fill Power (cuin) 700
Fill Weight (g) 245 (Size 10)
I'm an absolute novice in the down jacket department so would love to hear your opinions, recommendations and whether you think it would be a suitable purchase.
Thank you!

Seems nice and warm. Should be fine for commuting etc. Id also check how robust it is. You dont want to snag it on someones umbrella/handbag while getting off the bus and have feathers floating everywhere.

Only issue I have with down and NZ is rain. It rains a lot and when down gets wet you get cold quickly and it takes a day+ to dry. So that may be a factor if your using it to go tramping etc. or if you dont have a big enough umbrella for your commute.

[commando]

Goose down for $300, there is nothing to consider, its time to buy one, and start the love affair.
Taking into consideration that goose down is the the warmest per weight fill on earth
and usually considered the Rolls Royce of fill. That jacket appears to be made for some wet weather
conditions as well and would be a perfect choice for places like sub-antarctic Macquarie island.
I usually go through one down jacket per year as i rip them on sharp objects and when i get
sick of seeing too much silicone seal to stop the duck down coming out, i get another one.
Not an overkill for NZ but going to Mt Cook or Arthurs Pass it will come into its own dimension.

[Moondog55]

Actually it's not goose down but the down from wild Eider ducks that has the greatest warmth to weight ratio; but with the hard labour needed to hand process Eiderdown it is a very, very expensive alternative

[ribuck]

if you have 600 fp and 900fp is the 900 150% warmer for the same weight?

I assume you meant to write "50%", Craig.

The relationship is not quite so simple. Consider two ways in which you could use 900fp down.

You could use less 900fp down in the same item, to achieve the same loft with lower overall item weight. However, the item will lose more of its insultating power when under light compression (compared to the one with 600fp down) since there's less down to resist the compression.

Or, you could use the same weight of 900fp down, to achieve higher performance. However, the item would then need larger down pockets to accommodate the increased loft. The structure of the item would weigh a little more due to the larger internal baffles needed.

It's still well worth it though, to buy the highest performance down you can get within your budget.

[ricrunner]

Tell me , do they have to kill the animal to get the down?

[ribuck]

Tell me , do they have to kill the animal to get the down?

It depends. Live plucking used to be a common thing, but it's considered cruel. "Ethical" down comes from animals that are being killed for other reasons, including for meat, or in some cases is gathered from nests where it has been naturally shed. Naturally-shed down is really expensive.