Pack weight -heavier vs lighter

[mikethepike]

This topic arises from the now locked post 'Is ultralight bushwalking to risky?' but instead rather looks both the lighter and heavier ends of rucksack weight as a major factor influencing bushwalking enjoyment. I come into it at the lighter end of rucksack carriers - but I’m not an untralighter - and I often wonder what makes some people carry such big and bulky and presumably by association, such heavy packs. At the same time though, I know people who walk as easily with a 22-23 kg pack as I do with 16-17 kg. Presumably they have the potential to live more comfortably at night once the day’s walk is done but what proportion of the extra 6 kg is stuff not used on the walk because it is either unnecessary in the first place or the trip doesn’t extend beyond the due finish time.
To me, the two main advantages of lightweight bushwalking are:
(1) it’s easier and more comfortable and you finish the day with more energy.
(2) you tread more lightly on the landscape and get to enjoy it more during walking hours.
(3) it can mean greater bushwalking satisfaction.

With regards to (3), travelling lightly is a learned skill (eg you learn a lot by going thru’ your pack at the end of a walk and noting what you didn’t use –a modest First Aid kit and possibly the raingear excepted) and it’s a good feeling to finish an extended walk on time with no food in the pack, perhaps only a cupful of water and no unused items of gear or clothing.

Overall and within reason, I think that the counter argument to (ultra)lightweight walking has much more to do with comfort than safety and it’s easy to think of many examples of this. It is the weight on the back that requires bushwalkers to stop for rests during the day whereas the same people would require probably no rest stops on a day-night rogaine.

I think it is heavy rucksacks, not lighter ones, that cause more problems on bushwalks and primarily because they can hold parties up. I can recall five times taking weight from other’s rucksacks to lighten them and so keep to schedule (one was my dear wife’s and she is forgiven) but I’ve never had to lend items or give food to people travelling lighter than myself.

If you go lighter and occasionally get ‘caught out’, what’s wrong with the occasional cold night or running out of food a day early if there’s a delay. A bit of short term discomfort surely never hurt anyone – probably the opposite is true!

Last edited by mikethepike on Tue 28 Dec, 2010 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[walkinTas]

Bushwalking equipment has been getting lighter for 40 plus years now. One reason that people carry heavier equipment is simply that they have owned their gear for some time. However, when I buy new equipment weight is one consideration, but its not always the first.

I would point out that my original japara is still in the back of the car. Still going strong after 25 years. I've owned plenty of light-weight coats that have worked well, but didn't last the distance.

First I want to know that the piece of equipment will do the job. One of the great things about this forum is the gear reviews and reading about other peoples experience with a range of equipment. Plenty of people have posted on the forums saying how hard it is to decide which piece of equipment will meet their needs. It is great to read reviews from experienced users.

A second consideration is that like a lot of people I want all round performance out of my one set of equipment. I try to avoid the extra expense to having specialist tents and sleeping gear for different conditions. If one walked in those conditions often then the expense could be justified, maybe.

Another important consideration is value for money. I guess that this depends a bit on how often you walk and how often you use the piece of equipment. Will a cheaper item do the job? Is it going to get a lot of use and therefore a bit more expense is justified? My Japara was definitely great value for money.

If I find two or more pieces of gear that are comparable and will do the job etc., then I will look at weight. And like a lot of people I will look at the weight before I make a final decision. No one enjoys carrying unnecessary weight. That's why the Japara is the last coat into the bag when I go walking. Maybe that's why it lasted 25 years.

Will I buy lighter gear. Of course, we all do and have been doing so for years. Will I buy specialist LW gear. Absolutely, if it will do the job, last the distance and provide value for my money. You've just got to convince me - by posting lots of good reviews!

[Drifting]

The problem I have with LW gear is the cost of replacing my standard gear with stuff that is not as durable. Expense is my largest consideration in bushwalking.

[Charlievee]

Yeah, I hear ya guys. I'm trying to get a lighter pack, but still err on the side of durability now and then. For example - on a recent walk I knew that there would be much overgrown track walking and the branches would shred a gossamer bag. I opted for "old reliable" - a cavernous WE pack. Weighed about 3.5 kg !. While on the walk (a week long foray on the AAWT) I suffered from sore shoulders, neck and tender back. Not crippling injuries, but I certainly felt them at the end of the day. I would have loved to have taken my new Gatewood out for a try. But, this was the Victorian alps. I hadn't trail tested the shelter, and therefore had no confidence in it. I opted for a heavier, roomy tent in case of inclement weather. 2 kgs vs 500g. Of course the weather was beautiful. But, if I had brought the Gatewood - it would have poured .... I also brought a cheaper/ heavier sleeping bag. Rated at -2 deg. ; 1.4 kgs. I've since replaced it (thank you Santa !) with a Mntn Hardwear Phantom 32, with a 0 deg. rating at 750g. BTW - reviews and opinions on this site (and the fact that Paddy Pallin was having a sale) greatly influenced my choice. I guess what I'm saying is to make the gear fit the walk, and if possible take a lighter alternative where possible. BTW - I also upgraded to a Osprey Aether 60 that weighs 1.9 kgs. Little savings add up ! By using the Osprey pack, Phantom bag and Gatewood shelter I've dropped about 3.5 kgs weight ! Regards, CV
Oh yeah, Drifting ; the newer gear IS more expensive; no getting away from that. But, I replace what I can, when I can. I keep an eye out for specials and research thoroughly. Downside - I'm a terrible "gear hound". I have so much gear I have a bedroom dedicated to my stuff. Yes, I live alone ! Not many gals would put up with that sort of behaviour... Did I mention I love guitars too ?... I have another bedroom....

Last edited by Charlievee on Sun 02 Jan, 2011 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Son of a Beach]

travelling lightly is a learned skill (eg you learn a lot by going thru’ your pack at the end of a walk and noting what you didn’t use –a modest First Aid kit and possibly the raingear excepted) and it’s a good feeling to finish an extended walk on time with no food in the pack, perhaps only a cupful of water and no unused items of gear or clothing.

Most of what you wrote makes good sense, but for the kind of walking I do, this sort of thing has the potential to be quite dangerous if taken literally. Of course, I assume that people don't take this completely literally, and apply common sense.

One extreme example is that on a few walks where the weather has been favourable, I've not used my tent (slept under a large, rock, or on the verandah of a hut, etc). On other walks, I haven't needed my warm clothing at all. If I was to assess what I didn't use at the end of that walk, and use that as a basis of what to leave out on the next walk, that would obviously be a very bad thing. Of course that's an extreme example, but the same principle applies to every walk.

Rather than deciding to leave something out because you didn't use it on the last few walks, I would think that it makes sense to simply re-assess your need for bringing that item. The assessment may result in leaving it out, but may result in not leaving it out, if it is too great a risk to not have it. Of course the amount of risk taken is up to the person packing and that's their own personal choice.

As far as food goes, I would be very concerned if I finished an extended walk on time, and didn't have all my emergency rations still in my pack. Not because I like carrying extra weight, but because it could be dangerous to walk for several days without food. Eg, if I was slowed down by injury, or got stuck for three days at a river crossing on my next walk, then ran out of food three days from the end of the walk. Personally, I find that I run out of energy VERY quickly while walking if I don't keep eating.

Of course everyone has different needs and different priorities, but I'm just explaining a bit about how I think about some of the similar issues.

Like you, I'm not and ultra light walker, but like everyone, I'm trying to minimise my pack weight, while balancing the other factors of a good walk. I do like my creature comforts. No, they're not necessary, but things like good food, really add to the experience for me, and a little extra weight is worth it.

One of the other problems I have with trying to get my pack lighter is that even if I do have the lightest of everything today, they will be considered heavy in a few years time, and I cannot afford to update all my equipment every 5 years. Similarly, I cannot afford to have more than one of most things, depending on the kind of walking I do. So for example, I have one heavier sleeping bag that caters for every situation, and not a second lighter one for warmer walks.

[Funky_Bunch]

i was contemplating this yesterday at mount field, thinking back to one of my first overnight walks where one of our party was worried about the weight of his pack, upon picking it up i found it to be the lightest id ever picked up. now i have carried exceptionally heavy packs (heaviest 32kg) when doing rescue work but my normal weight is about 22-24 kg. and i can go all day with that no probs. i think like everything its personal experience and fitness (i know walkers with no pack that cant keep up to packed walkers) that are the more important. the other side for me is i like my comforts (every pack has an adult beverage inside) good fresh food for shorter walks often all 3 courses (not much else to do at night) and for me i enjoy cooking of an evening. there walking along yesterday i decided i wouldnt trade my lighter pack for the experience and joy that its contents provides me.
for people who enjoy light packs - go for it
for people who enjoy heavy packs - go for it
the important message is get out there and enjoy it you way.

(none of this is intended to be harsh or critical, just my pov. but ive been told my writing style can be misinterpreted)

[Pteropus]

Load weights have been weighing on my mind lately (pun totally intended ). I am preparing for a hike on Tassie’s South Coast track with some friends in early March. Just recently I got out most of my hiking gear and weighed it as a load. Without food and water it was approximately 15 kg. This weight does include my SLR and tripod, which I consider essential. As Son of a Beach mentioned you have to prepare for anything, and since I am headed to Tas I added cold weather gear I would not require in Qld or NSW (but this did not include a brand new down vest, courtesy of post Christmas sales, which weighs ~500 g).

Normally I carry between 2 and 3 litres of water/day, which are contained in bottles that weigh ~200 g each, since I am not a fan of bladders (I have had one break in my pack). For the South Coast I have estimated that I will require a minimum of 5 kg of food. Consequently my pack will weigh ~23-24 kg at the start of the walk. Clearly I could reduce my load weight significantly by carrying less water (do I need 3 litres/day on the SC track?), and by not carrying my SLR, but as I said, the camera is essential! I am comfortable with this weight, as long as I keep fit and continue to walk about with moderate-heavy loads.

Early last year I replaced my 10 year old pack with a new pack (One Planet). The pack weighs a bit but is durable AND more importantly for me, it has an excellent harness. My old pack did the job but the harness was uncomfortable with heavy loads and wore me down quickly. The only time I notice my new pack is going up hills. So for me it was a good harness that made the difference for carrying heavy loads.

[Son of a Beach]

Early last year I replaced my 10 year old pack with a new pack (One Planet). The pack weighs a bit but is durable AND more importantly for me, it has an excellent harness. My old pack did the job but the harness was uncomfortable with heavy loads and wore me down quickly. The only time I notice my new pack is going up hills. So for me it was a good harness that made the difference for carrying heavy loads.

I love my large One Planet pack. However, if I walked with a light enough load, then I wouldn't need such a good harness. With a light enough load, just about any harness would do.

(see, I can tread both sides of this debate ).

[Macca81]

Early last year I replaced my 10 year old pack with a new pack (One Planet). The pack weighs a bit but is durable AND more importantly for me, it has an excellent harness. My old pack did the job but the harness was uncomfortable with heavy loads and wore me down quickly. The only time I notice my new pack is going up hills. So for me it was a good harness that made the difference for carrying heavy loads.

I love my large One Planet pack. However, if I walked with a light enough load, then I wouldn't need such a good harness. With a light enough load, just about any harness would do.

(see, I can tread both sides of this debate ).

since getting my one planet pack, i have had the same mental debate with myself many times. walking has become much more enjoyable with this pack, as i have a crook back and the harness is just such a massive improvement. but then, if i shed 10kg from my pack weight, i wouldnt need the awesome harness...


for the time being, ill shed packed weight, then once it is below 10kg, i will look into a pack that has a lighter harness system

[north-north-west]

I've never weighed any of my gear, and the only reason I know how much some things weigh is because it's on the label. I've seen obsessives in other recreational activities and just refuse to go down that road.

That said, Nik got it right some time ago when he said that 'all else being equal, lighter is better than heavier' (my italics). The trouble is, 'all else;' seldom is equal.
I'm, smallish, but can be mildly claustrophobic in some circumstances. I don't like one-man tents, they just feel cramped. So up 'til now I've carried two-man tents (Salewa Sierra II & Nallo 2 most recently). But I'm getting seriously concerned about both the weight and bulk I'll be carrying on a couple of longer walks in Tassie in February/March, so I now have an Akto - but the thought of spending a day weathered in in something that small gives me the shivers. How to decide?
Also, in bad weather, it's best to be able to cook in the tent vestibule. Canister-top stoves like my Primus ETA are small and light - but they aren't the most stable, and you can't afford an accident in such circumstances. The gas Trangia however, while bulkier and heavier, is as stable as anything can be that isn't actually screwed down.
My Mont Nemo (-13) or a 0ish bag with extra thermals and wear the down jacket to bed if necessary?

I don't know how much the load I carried through the Snowys over the last eleven days weighed. But I didn't carry anything I didn't use (except a little food, most of the items in the 1st Aid kit and one spare pair of socks). so it's not like I could have lightened it much without completely replacing some basic and important items.
Which I can't really afford to do.

It's not always a simple decision to make.

[ILUVSWTAS]

But I'm getting seriously concerned about both the weight and bulk I'll be carrying on a couple of longer walks in Tassie in February/March, so I now have an Akto - but the thought of spending a day weathered in in something that small gives me the shivers. How to decide?

Good choice. I've now moved on from mine to a Terra Nova tent that weighs 680grams.

So I may have an Akto to sell soon...........

And being in one for a whole day isnt TOO bad. Just make sure you have a radio, book or mp3 player......

[north-north-west]

And being in one for a whole day isnt TOO bad. Just make sure you have a radio, book or mp3 player......

I'm not going to carry something I can't use and, being deaf, neither the radio nor the MP3 are any good.
Anyway, it's not about boredom, it's about space. Feeling those walls crushing me down . . .

[ILUVSWTAS]

Ahhh yes, good point.....
Well i've found when it's pissing down and blowing a gale outside, being snuggly cuddled in your tent is a nice feeling with the wind and rain centremetres from your face.

[north-north-west]

It'd be better warmly snuggled up to someone, but then the tent would be even more cramped . . .
See! You just can't win.

[ILUVSWTAS]

It'd be better warmly snuggled up to someone, but then the tent would be even more cramped . . .
See! You just can't win.

True.... Although at 53.5645364kg, i'd probably fit you and my wife in my Akto..

[north-north-west]

Sorry, I don't tent around with married men. Not even with their wives there.
Actually, especially with their wives there . . .

[Macca81]

Sorry, I don't tent around with married men. Not even with their wives there.
Actually, especially with their wives there . . .

Spoil sport...

[Charlievee]

You guys !!!....

[ILUVSWTAS]

You guys !!!....

Who me?

[melinda]

Heh north-north -west,
Did you spend a night up on Townsend last week?
M.

[pancake]

To me, the two main advantages of lightweight bushwalking are:
(1) it’s easier and more comfortable and you finish the day with more energy.
(2) you tread more lightly on the landscape and get to enjoy it more during walking hours.

How about cost as an advantage? Haven't seen much said about it

Wouldn't mind some $200 trail runners but $15 volleys go fine (nsw)
Bivvy ($60, US) and $18 tarp (Thai), but a flashy $xxx tent would be quite nice!
Trangia-style cooking sets are sweet but never had a problem with a coke-can alcohol stove (or empty tuna can from the first day with holes stabbed into the sides)
296gram, $40 Z-lite egg-carton style mat (but willing to carry the burden of a few extra grams for a neo-air )
etc..

-yes, posted by a student

[north-north-west]

Heh north-north -west,
Did you spend a night up on Townsend last week?
M.

Nope.
Near Mackeys, Jagungal, near Tin, Mann Bluff, Twynam Saddle, Disappointment Spur, between Valentine's & the Ghost, Grey Mare Range, Hell Hole Creek, Farm Ridge. The Sentinel was as far as I went. From there I could see the weather was going to turn and didn't want to be walking the Main Range when it went feral again.

[Tony]

Hi mPancake,

To me, the two main advantages of lightweight bushwalking are:
(1) it’s easier and more comfortable and you finish the day with more energy.
(2) you tread more lightly on the landscape and get to enjoy it more during walking hours.

How about cost as an advantage? Haven't seen much said about it

Wouldn't mind some $200 trail runners but $15 volleys go fine (nsw)
Bivvy ($60, US) and $18 tarp (Thai), but a flashy $xxx tent would be quite nice!
Trangia-style cooking sets are sweet but never had a problem with a coke-can alcohol stove (or empty tuna can from the first day with holes stabbed into the sides)
296gram, $40 Z-lite egg-carton style mat (but willing to carry the burden of a few extra grams for a neo-air )
etc..

-yes, posted by a student

Great post, maybe we should have a challenge of putting together the cheapest lightest bushwalking kit.

Tony