Wet weather gear

[Dazza45]

i know that this topic has been raised before but I am looking at updating wet weather gear. I have been looking at the MD Stratus goretex jacket and the Macpac Prophet XPD eVent jacket and was wondering what has been the experience of others with either of these?

[pazzar]

Both are very good jackets. If you want greater coverage, the Stratus is excellent, and not too heavy. The Prophet is shorter in length, and lighter weight. The handwarmer pockets are a great feature too. Probably best go try them on, take a pack with you if you want, and see how they feel.

What kind of jacket are you looking at replacing?

[Dazza45]

Thanks pazzar for your comments. I currently have an old Mont jacket but it is time for something better.

[andrewa]

Ive had Cabelas packlite goretex jkt and pants fit 4-5yrs now. They're cheap (ish), light, and have performed well for what I do which is skiing, bushwalking and some NZ off track stuff. I reckon they'd be inadequate for Tassie scrub or full on bushbashing, but, if you aren't into that, save the weight and go light. At the extreme, what about Dry Ducks or Frog Togs?.......

Andrew A

[pazzar]

Ive had Cabelas packlite goretex jkt and pants fit 4-5yrs now. They're cheap (ish), light, and have performed well for what I do which is skiing, bushwalking and some NZ off track stuff. I reckon they'd be inadequate for Tassie scrub or full on bushbashing, but, if you aren't into that, save the weight and go light. At the extreme, what about Dry Ducks or Frog Togs?.......

Andrew A

I reckon if you want something for Tassie scrub, there is no point getting a goretex jacket, you might as well just get a cheaper membraned jacket, as if you are constantly bashing through scoparia etc you will only put little holes in it and render it useless as a waterproof layer.

Thanks pazzar for your comments. I currently have an old Mont jacket but it is time for something better.

I currently have a Mont jacket and it is also due for a replacement. I like the look of the Prophet but I am unsure of whether I like the price on it. I'll most likely end up with a Stratus, or the cheaper non-goretex MD Melaleuca.

[ILUVSWTAS]

It's one of those things Jared where actually you NEED gretex because anything less gets ripped to shreds withing minutes, but as you correctly say, they soon become non- waterproof.

Owning 2 jackets is the key, one for track walking and one for off track walking.

[andrewa]

Many years ago I worked at MD, and I recall the ultimate Tassie goretex, which had a cordura external fabric laminated to PTFE . Weighed about 1kg, but bombproof. I even owned one for a while......
A

[ILUVSWTAS]

Many years ago I worked at MD, and I recall the ultimate Tassie goretex, which had a cordura external fabric laminated to PTFE . Weighed about 1kg, but bombproof. I even owned one for a while......
A

wow sounds awesome, there's a few current MD staff on this forum... do they know anything about this item???? My MACPAC jacket has been through a hell of a life, no longer waterproof but after about 8 years it's still in one piece. I wouldnt dream of going on a scrubby trip without it.

[andrewa]

It was back in the early 80s , and it was a version of the Stratus. Things have come a long way in 25yrs since then( or, perhaps in this case things might have regressed for lovers of Tassie scrub.)
A

[pazzar]

Many years ago I worked at MD, and I recall the ultimate Tassie goretex, which had a cordura external fabric laminated to PTFE . Weighed about 1kg, but bombproof. I even owned one for a while......
A

wow sounds awesome, there's a few current MD staff on this forum... do they know anything about this item???? My MACPAC jacket has been through a hell of a life, no longer waterproof but after about 8 years it's still in one piece. I wouldnt dream of going on a scrubby trip without it.

Someone's having a dig here I never said that they aren't tough jackets, I just think for a scrub jacket there is little point in spending a heap of money, when the cheaper options are sometimes just as tough.

[andrewa]

No-one's having a dig at you. There are some real limitations with goretex, and Tassie scrub is very different. I love my Cabelas stuff, but wanted to make clear what it's limitations are. AND I did work PT in MDs for about 5yrs back in the early 80s.
A

[pazzar]

I currently work for MD's, ILUV is only stirring. There are so many different forms of Goretex now, they all have different purposes. The Stratus is certainly a lot lighter than it used to be, and I since I don't own one, I can't speculate on its durability. But as has been said before, 2 jackets is a good way to go, one for scrub, one for keeping you dry on the tracks.

[ILUVSWTAS]

jesus not EVERYthing i say is a *&%$#! stir.........

[Dazza45]

Thanks for all of the responses. Although we try to get to Tassie every 12 or 18 months to walk, I live on the edge of Kosciuszko National Park with a 1500ml rainfall so the MD Stratus could be the answer. The cost of the Macpac Prophet jacket was a bit scarey however for the type of walking that we do, having two jackets could be the ultimate solution.

[Ent]

Hi

Spent a fortune on different types of rain wear and when all is said and done, more is said than done For bush bashing Goretex was traditionally rated as king simply because its membrane is matched to a very tough out-layer. This meant a heavy and stiff jacket but one that would handle tumbles and crashing through bush.

Other membranes have come and gone with latest one to claim perfection being eVent. eVent first up tended to appear in lighter weight gear so was mated with a lighter outer-layer which unsurprisingly was somewhat less robust. Unlike Goretex, eVent as far as I can tell tends not to have "standardised" categories of outer-layer material so it becomes tricky to compare brands and you wind up learning about denier and even weave patterns to get an idea on respective toughness. eVent nowadays can be sold under different trade names, this making it harder still to compare brands.

With Goretex you have Pac-lite which is designed for travel garments mainly so lighter weight than the Performance shell which is used in the MD Stratus. To get back flexibility but retain toughness Pro-shell is used in jackets like the Paddy Pallin Vista. Now this has not stopped manufacturers using Pac-lite in bushwalking outer-gear with high wear areas re-enforced with Performance or Pro-shell. eVent wet weather gear tends to have taken re-enforcing to a new level which is fine for minimising weight while maximising strength providing that the low wear areas do not catch on scrub

The MD Stratus is a "traditional" length and made jacket. The Prophet is something quite different, more a climbing or snow sport jacket. The nearest equivalent to a MD Stratus in eVent is probably the MacPac Hollyford. The PP Vista using Pro-shell is a more flexible but more expensive jacket than the Stratus but has now been dropped after over twenty years of production.

Frankly all the mention jackets are ok with prejudice deciding more often than not on what people rate as best. As for going lighter weight to give an idea my "scrub bashing" setup is a Vista and matching pants and that tips the scale at 1.3 kilograms. I tried a half kilogram setup and that failed first use so now going with an eVent setup just under one kilogram. This is tough enough for Tassie "track" walking but I would never consider using it for off track wanders.

Just as an aside, the cheapest place to source eVent jackets and pants is ex UK. My setup cost me around two hundred and fifty dollars which is a lot cheaper than any Australian pricing for eVent pants and jacket.

Cheers

[blacksheep]

Ent you now believe in eVent? wow. good for you! perhaps it was not all "marketers hype" after all

[Ent]

Ent you now believe in eVent? wow. good for you! perhaps it was not all "marketers hype" after all

Hi Blacksheep

Actually still believe that the eVent versus Gore-tex is over hyped big time. In my experience both work as well or as badly as each other with jacket/pant design and fit plus good old fashion price been bigger factors. Big issue with eVent is the rather indifferent DWR coating from a certain manufacturer Hope that has been fixed. My Rab pants are very good with the DWR coating and time will tell if they stand up to use as well as my Goretex Proshell PP Vista does. The DWR coating on that jacket is nothing short of spectacular. Not so sure on the DWR coating on the Montane jacket but it was better after the last wash and dry cycle.

For me Goretex in Proshell (and also the Performance shell) rocks for scrub bashing while I reserve my eVent Montane Jacket and Rab pants for track walks. This is simply a factor of the protective facing as I selected the eVent rain wear to be lighter. Actually rather tempted by the heavy version of the eVent Rab Alpine pants if anything happens to my PP Goretex ones as they have the length and fit that suits me best. Rab is cut for the longer limbed people.

As for the proper 3/4 length rain jacket, sadly not one exists on the market in either Goretex or eVent. Now I mean a proper 3/4 length, not a slightly longer jacket. As for jacket length the Vista in XXL is a dead heat with the Hollyford and only slightly longer than the Stratus. The Montane jacket is rather short but not quite into the bum freezer range. The Vista has a better fit while the Stratus is better suited to the Norm build, and the Hollyford is way to big in the body for me. And I am 6'3.5 and comfortably over 100 kilograms with a huge barrel chest so that is saying something

Cheers

[blacksheep]

Good-o, but to be clear, do you think macapac or rab or mhw or montane ( or whichever "certain brand" you refer to) apply the Dwr themselves? They do not. The fabric is made in a mill in Japan or Taiwan, where it is laminated to a PTFE membrane supplied from USA and shipped the a factory for cutting and sewing.
These brands do not dye the fabric or apply the DWR or glue the tricot on. We design, test, cut/sew and seam tape.
So any dissatifaction with a "certain brands" DWR quality is equal to the same dissatisfaction you have with all others in regards to eVent. As I stated in an earlier thread, GE's environmental unit does have strict guidlines on which chemicals may not be used in any product they produce- that includes Perfluorooctanoic acid - a chemiacl which had been used in rainwear fabrics for many years for DWR performance, but has now been ruled and unsafe by GE and is being phased out in the EU.
I'm sure you'll love the Montane jacket. It is simple and lightweight, but they do use eVent!

[Ent]

Good-o, but to be clear, do you think macapac or rab or mhw or montane ( or whichever "certain brand" you refer to) apply the Dwr themselves? They do not. The fabric is made in a mill in Japan or Taiwan, where it is laminated to a PTFE membrane supplied from USA and shipped the a factory for cutting and sewing.
These brands do not dye the fabric or apply the DWR or glue the tricot on. We design, test, cut/sew and seam tape.
So any dissatifaction with a "certain brands" DWR quality is equal to the same dissatisfaction you have with all others in regards to eVent. As I stated in an earlier thread, GE's environmental unit does have strict guidlines on which chemicals may not be used in any product they produce- that includes Perfluorooctanoic acid - a chemiacl which had been used in rainwear fabrics for many years for DWR performance, but has now been ruled and unsafe by GE and is being phased out in the EU.
I'm sure you'll love the Montane jacket. It is simple and lightweight, but they do use eVent!

Hi Blacksheep

Might pay to checkout the Hollyford thread. It was a long walk and I was wrecked from the flue so rather quiet by my normal standards but a fellow walker with the Hollyford zeroed in on the performance of his jacket to my Vista. Do not get me wrong. I think that the Hollyford is on the right track for a good solid traditional jacket design, just rather strange cut, at least in the XXL sizing. The DWR issue has come up a few times on this forum with the Hollyford jacket with you indicating on another thread that maybe on the earlier production runs the heat used for seam sealing might be damaging the DWR. I have read somewhere that the weave of the outer fabric can have some effect on the performance of the DWR as well. It might well be marketing hype.

Also I use a Miele washer/dryer that has an outerwear cycle and that works a treat. I use the Tech wash as well after any walk where the gear gets used for a few hours. Might be that this care means I get a better result than others. Still find that the Rab pants bead better than the Montane jacket. I think that the Montane jacket is a few seasons older than the Rab pants as it was sold on chuck out special pricing.

It might be that my PP Vista and matching pants has the "good stuff" for DWR so I am lucky even if the environment is not. eVent is rather hard to get a fix on the outer layer used, and also now not been helped by eVent allowing its product to be called by various propriety names. Does make hard to compare wet weather gear but that is marketing for you.

Actually not wrapped in the Montane jacket due to cut and pocket placement but it did not cost me much and is lighter. The Vista is much better design for wearing with a pack. My favorite design is an older Wilderness Wear Jacket but that is made in one of the many "breathable" fabrics that does not perform as well as it was hyped. I do admire a friend's very old One Planet jacket made in Goretex that after twenty years still is in excellent condition. Tried to "borrow" it but he keeps on catching me. As mentioned I am a fan of Rab pants and kick myself that I did not get the Rab jacket instead of the Montane one but I knew that an XXL Montane fit was ok on me, if rather short in the arms.

Still miss the ft and pocket design (just worked so well with a pack on) of my long lost Japura made by a local factory in Georgetown that was custom fitted. I just wish it would turn up one day but is probably long gone

Cheers