Permethrin as a insect repellent.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Hi, I read a report on a deterrent for insects from clothing, hammocks, socks etc, by soaking the items in a solution of permethrin mixed with water.

It's the first I have ever heard of this, has any one tried this?

[pazzar]

You find nearly all headnets/mesh tents and many lightweight clothing brands are now treated with Permethrin. I haven't used it myself, so I'm not sure of its effectiveness, but it certainly is used often.

[bauplenut]

Military has been doing it for years. Some people can have minor skin irritation though - so common practice was to have your clothes and mozzie net soaked in Permethrin, then wash them before use.

[jcr_au]

Exofico had (may still have) a range of clothes already pre-treated. I had a set and it seemed to work so bought some of the stuff from Paddy's and have used it when likely to encounter significant bity things

[jacko1956]

Because I really really really react to ticks and ordinary repellants don't bother ticks I have a garden permethrin spray bottle that I spray on my trouser legs (I always wear long pants), bottom of my pack and the top of my hat. Seems to work. Just be careful to not to spray onto yourself or food containers etc.

[ULWalkingPhil]

After getting some reactions from Leeches after a couple of days and worse Ticks, One tick got me on my wrist on the 2nd day of my hike, which made me a bit ill. I'm going to give this Permethrin a try on my hiking clothes.

[ULWalkingPhil]

I'm ready to give this Pyrethrum a try. Purchased a bottle of Kendon Pyrethrum Insect Killer today. It's 500 mL
Active Constituents:
13 g/L Pyrethrins
52 g/L Piperonyl Butoxide

Does anyone know, How I should mix this up for soaking my hiking clothes?

[jcr_au]

Umm

Pyrethrum & Permethrin are different things. The Permethrin we got from Paddy's had clear instructions on the label

[gayet]

Note: Pyrethrum is the organic compound that is an active insecticide - Permethrin is the chemical compound created to mimic it.

Read the instructions on the pack - is it a concentrate that you need to mix with water before using or is it ready to use? Follow that as a guide. It may require frequent re-application, particularly in the event of rain wetting clothes. And after washing obviously.

Both are low toxicity, but pyrethrum degrades rapidly once exposed. Permethrin lasts longer in the environment and has been linked with increasing resistance in target insects

[ULWalkingPhil]

Did I purchase the wrong product?
I could not find permethrin.

[gayet]

Of the 2, pyrethrum is probably kinder to the environment but it generally includes some chemicals to stabilise it. This reduces its environmental friendliness a bit. Pyrethrum is also a contact insecticide - insects are killed by contact - walking across a surface sprayed with it or being sprayed with it etc. But it doesn't last long.

Pyrethrum will not harm you, but don't drink the stuff! Read the instructions on the bottle - what do they suggest for using it as a surface spray? Do you have to dilute it with water before use or splash it around straight out of the bottle? If dilution is required, follow instructions and (I'd suggest) make it slightly weaker ( more water than recommended) than advised. If using it straight, add some water to weaken it a bit (say 100ml to the 500ml). Soak clean clothes in this as close as possible to packing/wearing - allowing them to dry first.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Of the 2, pyrethrum is probably kinder to the environment but it generally includes some chemicals to stabilise it. This reduces its environmental friendliness a bit. Pyrethrum is also a contact insecticide - insects are killed by contact - walking across a surface sprayed with it or being sprayed with it etc. But it doesn't last long.

Pyrethrum will not harm you, but don't drink the stuff! Read the instructions on the bottle - what do they suggest for using it as a surface spray? Do you have to dilute it with water before use or splash it around straight out of the bottle? If dilution is required, follow instructions and (I'd suggest) make it slightly weaker ( more water than recommended) than advised. If using it straight, add some water to weaken it a bit (say 100ml to the 500ml). Soak clean clothes in this as close as possible to packing/wearing - allowing them to dry first.

Hi, yes it requires dilution. The dilution rate I'm not sure, I'm not at home. Will get back to you on the dilution rate.

I'm going to stop by at another garden supply store shortly on the way home and see if I can find any permethrin. Otherwise, I will try the Pyrethrum.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Did a quick search online.

Pyrethrum Insect Killer
Description: Control of a range of insect pests in vegetables and ornamentals.

Sizes: 100ml, 500ml, 1L, 5L, 20L


MSDS info

Area Treated: 100ml makes upto 100L water

Contains: Pyrethrins 13.0g/L

Where to use: Is a quick acting liquid insecticide especially suited for control of insect pests of vegetables, ornamentals and exotic crops

When to use: Apply Pyrethrum preferably on appearance of larvae to minimize crop damage. Pyrethrum should be applied at 5-7 day intervals during the growth of the crop. The spraying interval should be shortened during periods of peak insect pressure.

Use Rate: Mix 30ml per 5L water

Useful Tips: Shake the container well before use. Ensure thorough spray coverage to avoid excess spray run-off. For knapsack application mix 30ml of Pyrethrum per 5 litres of water. Pyrethrum is compatible with Triforine Rose Fungicide.

Restrictions: Observe normal storage and disposal instructions.

Main Usage Period: Spring/Autumn

[ULWalkingPhil]

Ok, Forget the Pyrethrum.

I went to another garden supply store on the way back home and they had Permethrin in stock.

It's a 200mL container called Bletzem Insect Killer it's active ingredients are:
100g/L Permethrin 25:75
Solvent: 711g/L Hydrocarbon Liquid.
Mix 30mL into one litre of water.

Any idea what concentration I should mix this at for soaking my hiking chothes in?

[corvus]

Hi, I read a report on a deterrent for insects from clothing, hammocks, socks etc, by soaking the items in a solution of permethrin mixed with water.

It's the first I have ever heard of this, has any one tried this?

Phil,
You are going to a lot of effort when I believe "Bushman " 80% deet heavy duty insect repellent will do the job .
I apply it sparingly to my ankles knees and lower thighs(I walk in shorts with Gaiters) and then rub the residue on my neck and
face ,keeps the Leeches and Ticks at bay for ages
corvus

[jcr_au]

These instructions might help

http://www.thetraveldoctor.com.au/permethrinsoak.pdf

Whilst I can't find our bottle I think this is the stuff

http://www.greatoutdoorsdirect.com.au/p ... -Pack.html

[ULWalkingPhil]

Done more research, found out the Permethrin concentration in the Blitzem Insect Killer is 10%.

A concentration of .5% is used for soaking clothes. Not very good with Maths, Need to work out how many mills per litre I need to mix to get the .5% concentration for soaking my clothes in.

[South_Aussie_Hiker]

You have 10%. You want 0.5%. That's a factor of 20.

Your bottle of 200ml at 10% concentration - add to approximately 4L of water to get a 0.5% concentration.

[ULWalkingPhil]

Thanks all for the help.

Done more research on this Pyrethrum I have here, My brother sells Chemicals, and has contacts up high in the Insecticide industry. We done some research today and also spoke to some experts on chemicals.

Pyrethrum is basically the same as Permethrin.
The Blitzem Insect Killer is not a ideal product to use for soaking clothing because of the high concentration of Hydrocarbon Liquid. The high concentration gives a very high fire danger. Will make clothing highly flammable, advice I received was not to use the Blitzem Insect Killer.

The pyrethrum I have is a much safer option, so I'm going to use it.

Sorry about this, but I need to now work out the concentration needed for the other product I own.

It's called Kendon Pyrethrum Insect Killer
Active Constituents:
13 g/L Pyrethrins
52 g/L piperonyl Butoxide.

The container is 500 mL

[ULWalkingPhil]

The dilution ratio on the Pyrethrum bottle I have is Mix 30 mL per 5 L of water, I'm going to try this solution and see how it works. If it don't deter the insects, I will increase to strength.

Not good with maths, but I worked out I would roughly need to use apx 380 mL into 4 litres of water. which sounds a bit high to me. Makes for a very expensive product if this is the case.

[photohiker]

I would use the hydrocarbon one. I don't think it will alter flammability (the HC's will probably evaporate off anyway) Think about it, you can hardly make polyester or nylon more flammable than it already is... When added to water, it emulsifies. Bet that water don't burn

You can buy it from the Travel doctor in Qld. Its the same CIS:TRANS ratio as what you already have, but her product is 500g/L and yours is 100g/L. I'd just buy hers and get on with it. Note that she seems to have done her homework and tested her methods.

She's got good helpful instructions here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOsi_SCRbHI

Pyrethrums just won't last as long.

[Medeea]

so the question is once you've figured out the ratios did you find it effective against Leeches at all ?

[liss]

Hi I have found by rubbing dancorub or tiger balm rubbed on boots will stop leaches from crawling up your legs.My daughter put a ring around her gumboots. We watched one climb up to dancorub and then fall right off. I watched time teamlast week and they had a saline dropper to remove leeches.I will be taking an eye dropper of saline from now on

[Lizzy]

Not sure if its the same as travel doctor but my work sells one called "debugger"- permethrin clothes wash- has directions on the bottle. Dilute, soak & dry clothes. Good for about 6 washes if I remember correctly....

[KANANGRABOYD]

I had a very awful experience a few months ago with ticks in KBNP, and over a 4 day period was bitten by over 100 ticks. They were minute, and even though I had the strongest DEET, it did nothing. I was even bitten on my parts that I couldn't put DEET on. I had sores for 3 weeks and looked like I had chicken pox. So I went online and searched and researched on ticks etc, and found that Permethrin was the best anti arachnid. So I got some fom Bunnings and diluted it as per directions, and using a spray bottle, sprayed my shoes, tent door and edges, socks and gaiters. Then let them dry, I had liberally applied the spray solution to the clothing. The next trip to the same spot, that was still infested with ticks, I received ZERO bites.
I am completely sold on Permethrin, apart from the initial smell, but it is virtually un noticable once dry. If used correctly it poses no problems to humans. From now on whenever I go hiking into spots with ticks I will treat my gear. It worked superbly.

[bernieq]

Phillipsart, you do have a problem with maths !

Not good with maths, but I worked out I would roughly need to use apx 380 mL into 4 litres of water

If the mix rate is 30ml to 5 litres of water, then that’s 6ml for each litre. So, to the 4L of water, add 4 x 6 = 24ml – not 380ml !

BTW, the way pyrethrum works on insects is ‘interesting’. Pyrethrum is able to absorb through the exoskeleton (skin/shell) of the insect and penetrate into the nerve endings. It ‘docks’ with the nerve endings and stimulates them. With lots of it’s nerves furiously firing, the insect dies from exhaustion !

My experience with commercial clothing with claimed insect-repellent properties is summed up with the photo below – guess which (first time worn) shirt had been treated :)

lots of flies on the GOW - Nov 2007

flies on the GOW.JPG (85.41 KiB) Viewed 36547 times

[ULWalkingPhil]

To be honest, I'm yet to try this out. I still have the two bottles of Kendon Pyrethrum insect killer and Blitzem Insect killer.

The Kendon Pyrethrum insect killer active constituents: bottle size 500ml
13 g/L Pryethrins
52 g/L Poperonyl Butoxide

The Blitzem Insect killer: Bottle size 200ml
100 g/L Permethrin 25:75
711 g/L Hydrocarbon Liquid

I want to try this, but have not been game to.

[ULWalkingPhil]

I had a very awful experience a few months ago with ticks in KBNP, and over a 4 day period was bitten by over 100 ticks. They were minute, and even though I had the strongest DEET, it did nothing. I was even bitten on my parts that I couldn't put DEET on. I had sores for 3 weeks and looked like I had chicken pox. So I went online and searched and researched on ticks etc, and found that Permethrin was the best anti arachnid. So I got some fom Bunnings and diluted it as per directions, and using a spray bottle, sprayed my shoes, tent door and edges, socks and gaiters. Then let them dry, I had liberally applied the spray solution to the clothing. The next trip to the same spot, that was still infested with ticks, I received ZERO bites.
I am completely sold on Permethrin, apart from the initial smell, but it is virtually un noticable once dry. If used correctly it poses no problems to humans. From now on whenever I go hiking into spots with ticks I will treat my gear. It worked superbly.

Which Permethrin bottle did you purchase? which instructions did you use, Per instructions on bottle or on this topic?

[KANANGRABOYD]

I had a very awful experience a few months ago with ticks in KBNP, and over a 4 day period was bitten by over 100 ticks. They were minute, and even though I had the strongest DEET, it did nothing. I was even bitten on my parts that I couldn't put DEET on. I had sores for 3 weeks and looked like I had chicken pox. So I went online and searched and researched on ticks etc, and found that Permethrin was the best anti arachnid. So I got some fom Bunnings and diluted it as per directions, and using a spray bottle, sprayed my shoes, tent door and edges, socks and gaiters. Then let them dry, I had liberally applied the spray solution to the clothing. The next trip to the same spot, that was still infested with ticks, I received ZERO bites.
I am completely sold on Permethrin, apart from the initial smell, but it is virtually un noticable once dry. If used correctly it poses no problems to humans. From now on whenever I go hiking into spots with ticks I will treat my gear. It worked superbly.

Which Permethrin bottle did you purchase? which instructions did you use, Per instructions on bottle or on this topic?

Hey Phil,
Sorry for delay I was out in the Wild Dogs this weekend.- Beautiful weather, loads of people out!.
Here is a photo of what I used. I just used it as per directions and put into a spray bottle and soaked my shoes/gaiters/tentdoor/groundsheet with it, and didn't have any more ticks.
I got it at Bunnings.

chemspray.jpg (48.67 KiB) Viewed 35648 times

[ULWalkingPhil]

I had a very awful experience a few months ago with ticks in KBNP, and over a 4 day period was bitten by over 100 ticks. They were minute, and even though I had the strongest DEET, it did nothing. I was even bitten on my parts that I couldn't put DEET on. I had sores for 3 weeks and looked like I had chicken pox. So I went online and searched and researched on ticks etc, and found that Permethrin was the best anti arachnid. So I got some fom Bunnings and diluted it as per directions, and using a spray bottle, sprayed my shoes, tent door and edges, socks and gaiters. Then let them dry, I had liberally applied the spray solution to the clothing. The next trip to the same spot, that was still infested with ticks, I received ZERO bites.
I am completely sold on Permethrin, apart from the initial smell, but it is virtually un noticable once dry. If used correctly it poses no problems to humans. From now on whenever I go hiking into spots with ticks I will treat my gear. It worked superbly.

Which Permethrin bottle did you purchase? which instructions did you use, Per instructions on bottle or on this topic?

Hey Phil,
Sorry for delay I was out in the Wild Dogs this weekend.- Beautiful weather, loads of people out!.
Here is a photo of what I used. I just used it as per directions and put into a spray bottle and soaked my shoes/gaiters/tentdoor/groundsheet with it, and didn't have any more ticks.
I got it at Bunnings.

chemspray.jpg

And your still alive, that's a good thing. I was starting to think maybe it was a bit to strong when I did not hear from you.

I was always worried just how safe is this stuff on your clothes, I will check out our local bunnings this week and give this a try. Would be great if it also works on leeches.