Is 'Stay Still' the best advice when lost ?

[keithj]

At the end of every SAR operation media briefing there is the standard message from the police - If you are lost, then stay still.

This has always seemed ill conceived -

1) For every search that happens there must be hundreds of others that are never needed, because the temporarily lost has self-rescued.... by not staying still. Many here will have saved 100's of searcher-hours by doing just that.
2) The recent Hannels Spur SAR operation was in dense bush - if he had stayed put, they might still be looking for him.
3) It is very hard to ignore the survival instinct and not try to save yourself when you don't know for sure that anyone has noticed you're missing and help is coming, especially when you're tired, cold, wet, hungry and alone.

Better advice might be -
If you still lost after a few hours, get yourself to a place where you can easily be seen from afar preferably the air, provided it is safe to do so, and stay there.

[north-north-west]

As with everything, it depends on the circumstances.
What are the weather conditions? What are the surrounding terrain and vegetation like? What supplies/equipment/navigational aids do you have? How experienced are you at navigation and off-track walking? What is your physical condition? Are you thinking clearly? Have you called for assistance?

Temporary geographical uncertainty happens to all of us. The basic "Stop, Breathe, Think, Act" resolves most of those situations eventually.

[johnw]

At the end of every SAR operation media briefing there is the standard message from the police - If you are lost, then stay still.

This has always seemed ill conceived -

1) For every search that happens there must be hundreds of others that are never needed, because the temporarily lost has self-rescued.... by not staying still. Many here will have saved 100's of searcher-hours by doing just that.
2) The recent Hannels Spur SAR operation was in dense bush - if he had stayed put, they might still be looking for him.
3) It is very hard to ignore the survival instinct and not try to save yourself when you don't know for sure that anyone has noticed you're missing and help is coming, especially when you're tired, cold, wet, hungry and alone.

Better advice might be -
If you still lost after a few hours, get yourself to a place where you can easily be seen from afar preferably the air, provided it is safe to do so, and stay there.

As with everything, it depends on the circumstances.
What are the weather conditions? What are the surrounding terrain and vegetation like? What supplies/equipment/navigational aids do you have? How experienced are you at navigation and off-track walking? What is your physical condition? Are you thinking clearly? Have you called for assistance?

Temporary geographical uncertainty happens to all of us. The basic "Stop, Breathe, Think, Act" resolves most of those situations eventually.

Yes, agree with all of this. I've gotten myself out of potentially serious trouble a (very) few times though not in an immediate life threatening situation.
Probably many more times have sorted out some level of navigational or logistical embarrassment on the fly before things went pear shaped.
Many navigation or other problems can be resolved by stopping and thinking rationally, significant injuries or illness are a different consideration.
One hopes that the standard police message is principally directed at the lowest level of knowledge and experience.
Better they stay put than wander around in a panic making things worse - hopefully such people are unlikely to be somewhere like Hannels Spur.

[peregrinator]

. . . hopefully such people are unlikely to be somewhere like Hannels Spur.

With all the publicity it is receiving, a route that was infrequently visited will probably attract some who are not likely to enjoy it much!

[Xplora]

If you can make good decisions maybe you can self rescue. Clearly those with little experience and perhaps no map or nav aid should stay still. In this instance he would have been found twice but he kept moving out of the search area.

Having done a great deal of off track navigation and walking on tracks that are faint or poorly marked I can confidently say self rescue is a good option. Animal tracks can lead you off the main track easily but it should become obvious quickly. In this instance the young man has dropped off the spur to a creek line. The spur is still obvious, even with trees. Head back uphill to the spur line. One km back to the spur is an easier option than the world of pain pushing through thick scrub. He has hopefully learnt a valuable life lesson (or 6).

[Xplora]

From a so called expert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voIHedc8pa8
Some of what he says is relevant but his assumption the fellow was experienced would need some substantiation. An experienced person would have realised the navigational mistake and not compounded the mistake.

[Biggles]

Staying still when lost is best to conserve energy, especially if tired and disoriented. Walking and walking, exhausting water and food and not knowing the next source isn't a good scenario.

The robust Hazaras come from a much more difficult home country — Afghanistan, with all its dust, abject desolation, heat and cold and the ever-seeking Taliban. Their centuries-old familial affinity with the mountains and travelling very long distances no doubt kept Hadi in good mental and physical shape, though the landscape of the Snowys couldn't be any further removed feature-wise than the gaunt and ghastly hills of Iraq!

What's next? A Current Affair or Spotlight comes knocking...?

[Biggles]

From a so called expert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voIHedc8pa8
Some of what he says is relevant but his assumption the fellow was experienced would need some substantiation. An experienced person would have realised the navigational mistake and not compounded the mistake.

He has been on many walks and ski-tours with Hazara Hikers Australia.
English is not their first language, so it may take more time to get the details we all crave to know about — especially surviving on the incredible "...foraging for berries and 2 muesli bars left in a hut..." Geewiz, I would be hoping to find some gin and lamingtons in a hut if I was lost. But what, never mind. I get lost in McDonalds!!

[JamesMc]

Whenever I hear a suggestion of having a CD to use as a reflector for signalling (presumably to a helicopter), I know I'm listening to a NUFI.

[Xplora]

From a so called expert
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voIHedc8pa8
Some of what he says is relevant but his assumption the fellow was experienced would need some substantiation. An experienced person would have realised the navigational mistake and not compounded the mistake.

He has been on many walks and ski-tours with Hazara Hikers Australia.
English is not their first language, so it may take more time to get the details we all crave to know about — especially surviving on the incredible "...foraging for berries and 2 muesli bars left in a hut..." Geewiz, I would be hoping to find some gin and lamingtons in a hut if I was lost. But what, never mind. I get lost in McDonalds!!

I know people who have done many bushwalks and ski tours who lack the ability to make those important decisions necessary in an emergency. He may have followed others the entire time and it seems he did not have much in the way of navigation. My point is, just because you have had a pack on in a group does not mean you have the experience the media is rating. Was he a follower on this walk? There is not much of a comparison to be made between KNP and his home country in terms of terrain. Early media reports indicate this was his first time to KNP.

A good result in the end. Many lessons learned and those lessons are what we can focus on now so others can learn them also.

[Walk_fat boy_walk]

From a so called expert.

Plenty of those coming out of the woodwork atm

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[jtmiske]

Interesting question. I have been reflecting on this too. I think it is wise what others have said, along the lines of: get to a highly visible spot if possible and deemed safe, or self-rescue if there's a clear way to do this. If not, THEN probably stay put. In the recent news, I am perplexed as to why self-rescue didn't involve just walking west until you hit the road - would have been a much quicker and easier option than bashing back up that awful thick and steep line to the Main Range... not to mention it seems he probably crossed Lady Northcotes Ck, entirely unnecessarily.
I don't know the background of the recent high profile story in full, so what I'm about to say is not directed specifically at it but to a trend I've noticed with walkers I've met and a couple of high profile 'lost' cases that *may* also be applicable in this case: what constitutes an "experienced" walker is misunderstood, often by walkers themselves. You may be very experienced walking on tracks, but do you have navigation experience (off-track as well as on-track WITHOUT a GPS), a paper or mental map of the general area, knowledge of which direction the sun follows in the sky? Are you always carrying some emergency food, rainwear and a torch... I'm sure others could add more. Sometimes, all of us get our brains get muddled, I guess, especially when scared.

[Warin]

knowledge of which direction the sun follows in the sky?

That seems to be programed into my brain. Unfortunately when visiting the northern hemisphere I tend to take off in the wrong direction due to the reversal of the suns path! Takes about 2 weeks to adjust

Are you always carrying some emergency food, rainwear and a torch...

Always? No.
If I'm going on a 'short walk' then probably not.
If there is no likely hood of rain then no rainwear, similar for a torch.

--------------
As for 'staying still' ... Well you'd want a good spot to wait - with water, shelter, any available food (berries in this case) and good visibility. The food requirement may force movement.

Far simpler to carry a PLB .. and a smart phone with off line map and built in GPS. Does not take much knowledge to use these.

[scroggin]

I think if you are after advice when lost, then "stay still" is the best advice. If you are experienced enough, you know whether that is the best advice or not.

[Moondog55]

It's probably the best advice for kids and the in-experienced. Hug-A -Tree and wait for help to arrive is good advice up until a certain age and experience level.
After that I think that "Make a cuppa and think" works well

[rcaffin]

After that I think that "Make a cuppa and think" works well
Indeed.
We were coming down a river in Wollemi, and were getting near the Colo, when we almost fell over a 20? m smooth near-vertical cliff. The shock was made worse by the bed of the river upstream: wide, almost dead flat sheet sandstone, no trees or boulders. Idyllic. But we did not have enough food to back-track.
So I persuaded my wife Sue that what we should do was to sit down and have morning tea, with coffee.
Heart-rate slowed down, brain started up.
After that, we found a way to abseil down the face and continue on to the Colo.

Wonderful stuff, coffee.

Cheers
Roger

[skibug]

I am puzzled by a few aspects of this story:

If he was spotting search helicopters, you know people are searching so why not build a big smoky fire?

Presumably, he had no paper or phone app- maps, so being experienced hikers why did the two companions not wait for him?

If it were me, once I found Opera House hut, that would be THE place to stop and wait - shelter, wood for a fire, water and a logical spot for both rescuers and other hikers to check out.

Foraging berries? Aside from blackberries, what berries would be found in that area this time of year that are safe to eat? Are there blackberries in this area?

Why did he dump his camera? And I saw one report suggesting he had off-loaded his tent - if true, why would you?

A few questions to be answered.

Skibug.

[Kickinghorse2]

Yes I’m with you Skibug, I’ve had a niggling feeling that there’s more to this story.
Phil.

[GBW]

What about the lighter? You'd be hanging on to that.

I've looked down from where he was found. That's a fair climb with no food for 2 weeks? Why didn't he stay at the hut? It looks cosy!

Well done to all the search teams even if they didn't find him. He looked in fair condition too.

This is a good video showing some of the challenges he must have dealt with...

https://youtu.be/gjFbknJZ4nY?si=HGMj8mzSAeonkZFX

[wildwanderer]

My 2 cents.

If you have gotten disoriented/injured near a track/route and friends/relatives know the approximate area where you have gone missing. Then stay put, SAR resources will blanket the area within a few km of your last seen position or the area you are known to be. You will likely be found quickly. Find water, maximise your visibility and stay put.

If you're experienced and on a multi day off track trip and the area is thick bush with tree canopy (making you hard to spot from the air) and your friends/relatives have only a vague idea (eg 10-20km) where you might be then attempt self rescue or move to the area you were last seen if you can. 10-20km is a huge area for SAR resources to cover. If you're moving make arrows or other signs for SAR to find that indicate the direction you have gone.(And the date you were there if possible)

If it's night and you hear planes/helicopters. Get out of your sleeping bag. Thermal cameras won't spot you if you're thermal signature is shrouded by a sleeping bag/rock shelter.

Don't wear brown/grey or other colours that blend in with the bush. Or at least have a high viz top you can put on if you become lost/injured. Carry a PLB. At least carry a whistle.

[CraigVIC]

Remember the couple at Buffalo? Got lost, stayed put for 3 days but weren't found, then walked down and out themselves.

[CraigVIC]

Why did he dump his camera? And I saw one report suggesting he had off-loaded his tent - if true, why would you?

A few questions to be answered.

Skibug.

From an abc report: He said Mr Nazari had left a video message on his camera, found by rescuers at a makeshift camp site on Sunday.

[Lophophaps]

As with everything, it depends on the circumstances ... Temporary geographical uncertainty happens to all of us. The basic "Stop, Breathe, Think, Act" resolves most of those situations eventually.

That makes sense to me.

I know people who have done many bushwalks and ski tours who lack the ability to make those important decisions necessary in an emergency. He may have followed others the entire time and it seems he did not have much in the way of navigation. My point is, just because you have had a pack on in a group does not mean you have the experience the media is rating. Was he a follower on this walk? There is not much of a comparison to be made between KNP and his home country in terms of terrain. Early media reports indicate this was his first time to KNP.

A good result in the end. Many lessons learned and those lessons are what we can focus on now so others can learn them also.

There's a huge difference between following and leading, especially in scrub with no track. On terrain near Jagungal with minimal trees and scrub it's sometimes hard for me to pick features. I know where I am but is that lump A or B? An inexperienced person does not have the skills to make the right decisions

I am perplexed as to why self-rescue didn't involve just walking west until you hit the road - would have been a much quicker and easier option than bashing back up that awful thick and steep line to the Main Range... not to mention it seems he probably crossed Lady Northcotes Ck, entirely unnecessarily.

He did not have the skills to do this. It looks like he went north into the Geehi River, fairly close to the Olsens track and Alpine way. All he had to do was cross the river and go uphill for a bit, possible heavy scrub. The other option is go downstream for a few hours. Instead it appears that he went upstream, and then up or next to Lady Northcotes Canyon

If it were me, once I found Opera House hut, that would be THE place to stop and wait - shelter, wood for a fire, water and a logical spot for both rescuers and other hikers to check out.

The Opera House is well away from the search area. If he made a lot of smoke that may get attention, or he may have been able to flash an aircraft. He probably lacked the skills to do either.

[snowygreybeard]

(Un)fortunately there are heaps of blackberries in Lady Northcote creek, especially just downstream from the Opera House. Probably ripe now.

[Avatar]

Taxpayers are reported to have funded $2M for 400 volunteers over 13 days.

The ABC wrap-up report is as sketchy AF.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-01-10/ ... /104802976

We haven't been given the full story. We want the facts. We are entitled an explanation.

[Baeng72]

I like the takes above. If you know something like 'track is on top of spur, I will turn around and walk back up spur' or are good at self extracting, do so. If not, and people know where you are, or you're injured, fire up the PLB (if you have one), and wait....

Regarding the bloke recently ex-lost in the Snowys:
I don't want to be ever start a search or need people spending their valuable time on me, but it's nice that it's there.

I'm waiting for the announcement of a big exclusive on one of the major TV networks Sunday night current affairs type programs. Sixty Minutes, current affair or Spotlight. (Too cynical? probably...)
Could be a nice payday with some Max Markson type character behind it.

Or if he's like me, I'd say thanks, then go to ground.
The moment the media puts you on a pedestal, you're not far from having them going through your rubbish (metaphorically, I hope) and painting you in a less than savory light. But it might be worth the fame/money for some.

[Tortoise]

If it were me, once I found Opera House hut, that would be THE place to stop and wait - shelter, wood for a fire, water and a logical spot for both rescuers and other hikers to check out.

Surely the place to stop. By far the best shelter possible in that situation, and plenty of water. (We were very relieved to get there, and we went there on purpose. ) I would have thought a smokey fire this time of year from the Opera House would have made authorities at least check it out under the circumstances, especially if it was repeated. But perhaps if he could see/smell smoke from the bushfire, he thought it was too dangerous to stay there. And as others have mentioned, he may not have the skills to make a fire. Or didn't have the capacity at the time to think of it.

[north-north-west]

.. or he may have been able to flash an aircraft.

Humans can be remarkably hard to see from the air, unless they're wearing/waving very bright colours such as red or orange. I don't think bare skin would work very well.

[Xplora]

Remember the couple at Buffalo? Got lost, stayed put for 3 days but weren't found, then walked down and out themselves.

Something not quite right about that one.

[Xplora]

(Un)fortunately there are heaps of blackberries in Lady Northcote creek, especially just downstream from the Opera House. Probably ripe now.

Not ripe yet. Another 5 to 8 weeks depending on altitude. Assuming NSW blackberries in Alpine areas are similar to Vic. I know mine are no where near it and usually it is late Feb to pick and make jam.