Lightweight tent

[mattmacman]

Dont stop talking about all this on my account im quite interested about hammock hiking and would love to hear more!

[nq111]

There are plenty of proven successes with hammocks being used in the cold weather. See the link below. To me it makes more sense because you can stay above the snow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jnoo4BPe2eo

My hammock has handled high winds with ease. It's just getting it nice and tight and tying the right knots. There's also things called weather shields that go over the mozzie nets which keeps the warm air in and acts a bit like a tent.

http://www.junglehammock.com/features_unique.php

I cook under the tarp of my hammock which is way better than risking cooking in the tent. You'll see from the video that melting snow is rather easy in a hammock.

If I was going above the tree line I'd invest in some rock climbing cams and tap into the rock. But that would be harder than finding a spot for a tent. But I'd prefer the less weight.

High winds/alpine conditions to me mean potential for 100km/hr plus winds and visability down to about 10 metres or less. The sort of conditions that you pretty much must stop immediately, bunker down and get protected and warm and or you risk getting into trouble pretty quickly. Not common, but certainly not rare enough to not plan for in places like Tassie, New Zealand, Scotland, Patagonia and higher mountains around the world.

I certainly agree with you that the cold can be successfully dealt with - other aspects of alpine camping i am not so sure. I feel a good tent is safer, more comfortable and practical.

I think we will just agree to disagree on this and the take home message is that opinions vary. It is amazing what some people have achieved in hammocks by pushing the envelope. There is plenty of good information in the world wide ether that people can research and judge the benefits/risks of one approach over another from their own perspective.

For WA the conditions I am refering to aren't going to happen and I would be packing a hammock too. Just recalled too that there is a reveiw of a Hennessey Hammock from WA on backpackgeartest: http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews ... %20Preece/

[HitchHiking]

Just my two cents for the worth of hammocks-

In warm to moderately chilly weather hammocks are great and I can get my own set up slightly lighter than I can with a ground set up. (sorry I cant recall the exact details of weights.) Yes, even going cold and extremely cold in a hammock is very possible and great fun if you like the challenge of such things.

Where the hammock comes in short is of course desert and, as mentioned, alpine conditions. I have tried myself and seen people setting up on rocks and other objects which again can be fun and challenging. But if one was ever in a situation which called for an immediate bivouac in an alpine climate were camp areas are limited for hammocks, then there could be serious consequences.

As most here know I make tarps and also use them often and know their limits well (which is dependent on the skill of the user). The tarp's limits will then be the hammock's limits. And in much alpine conditions large gusts of wind can damage a tarp catastrophically as there is no structure provided by the tent poles and tent's design. When a tarp fails the hammock has no chance as one's warmth will be lost to the wind and surrounding air by radiation. The tarp is a main contributor to the warmth of a hammock and works in conjunction with other pieces of specialised or regular kit. (ie. underquilts or pads/mats)

As I see it, the ground sleepers have the advantage over hammocks in extreme cold and alpine areas. Set up times for tents are shorter in alpine conditions, compared to hammocks. Camp selection is far easier because one is not limited by where the hammock must be hung. Also, snow acts as very good insulator by limiting the loss of warmth through conduction. It's better than the ground itsself and far better than being suspended mid air in the deep cold.

In short, I guess, then, what the hammock offers in the woodlands in terms of versatility, the tent offers the same in alpine conditions and extreme cold. Nothing is impossible, only there are usually easier and sometimes safer options.

Of course, no piece of kit is ideal for all situations one can face and if anybody finds or designs one please let me know!

No new conclusions here, just my two cents from some experience.

Cheers

[Penguin]

Might be a dumb question - but what do you do with a hammock if the camping spot has no decent trees.

I have often camped in low scrub and button grass.

keen to know what people do.

Penguin

[HitchHiking]

Some hammock designs can be set up on the ground in a bivy style which is pretty neat. There are then the risks of damage to the hammock which can make it very dangerous to the hang. A sudden drop of few feet can be bad news. Myself ,I usualy have a way of sleeping on the ground. With the weight of some of the new mats hitting the market its becoming very easy. Also as mentions a mat can replace or add to the use of an underquilt.

[Cocksy_86]

I concur. The best thing about hammocks is making use of the trees already out there rather than carting in the poles. If there are no trees, then there aren't too many other options a hammock can work with. Like I said earlier, I don't think a hammock could handle a snowstorm above the treeline, moreso in regards to the weight of the snow.

I'd prefer the less weight and the benefits of a hammock. But if safety is an issue, well, that has to come first. It comes down to risk management. Even the risk of ruining the hike. What is the chance of a snow storm, what is the outcome (cold, wet, miserable), what is the weight that is saved, is it worth it?

Still, I think most of us hike where there are trees, so this off-track topic is going off-track

[ULWalkingPhil]

There's always plenty of tree's where I go camping. I'm certain I will never have any problems finding a couple of trees to hang off. Now I just got to save up for my future Warbonnet Blackbird and Camo Supertarp. Can't wait for that day, As soon I receive my Blackbird I'm off to Fraser Island to do some hanging.

[nq111]

Sounds like everyone more or less agrees to where and where not to take a hammock.

Might be a dumb question - but what do you do with a hammock if the camping spot has no decent trees.

I have often camped in low scrub and button grass.

keen to know what people do.

Penguin

Not dumb at all. In most parts of the world it is far easier to find two appropriate trees than a half decent clear flat site for a tent. You just stop at different places.

Otherwise you can try and bivy in the hammock as mentioned - or just take a tent - as discussed at length.

[Cocksy_86]

I guess that's another aspect of hammocking that hasn't been mentioned and probably should be continued in a Hammock discussion. The difference between the diaganol hammocks (bridge hammocks) and the straight lying ones (correct me on the terminology).

The Warbonnet and Hennessy Hammocks are diagnol hammocks where they are really wide and the camper needs to lie diagonally across it to stay level. It's really affective and most people preferred method. There are negatives however, wider hammocks need a bigger UQ (Under Quilt) which means more weight. I find I sit deeper in the wider hammocks and I don't get as good a view outside (others would beg to differ though). And some say they can't sleep on their side in these hammocks. Still I think this design is more hassle free and recommend it to people.

The straight lying hammock is a more simple design where the camper lies straight up and down the fabric. Examples of these are the Clark Jungle Hammock and the DD Frontline Hammock. There good, I personally like this design because I don't feel as claustrophobic in it and I sleep on my side easily. It also requires less material so it's a bit lighter. But the big problem with them is the difficulty in becoming level. The hammock has a natural tendency to bend and get into a banana shape. So the I eventually end up almost in a fetal position looking like a tennis ball in a football sock. It can be combatted by making the foot end higher than the head. Doing this distributes the weight enough so the bend is almost at the head, so the rest of the body can stay straight. It's hard to explain.

http://steelgod.smugmug.com/photos/3182 ... nMUU-M.jpg

You can see with this guy he's not lying straight and he would eventually, once relaxed, end up in a ball position in the middle of the hammock. If the feet were higher, the bend would be further up the body. Plus, he should have made it a bit tighter to get rid of more of the bend.

Anyway, it's another thing to consider when looking at getting a hammock: diagonal or straight. It's really a personal choice, and one isn't better than the other.

[hikingoz]

Just my two cents for the worth of hammocks-

...in much alpine conditions large gusts of wind can damage a tarp catastrophically as there is no structure provided by the tent poles and tent's design. When a tarp fails the hammock has no chance as one's warmth will be lost to the wind and surrounding air by radiation. The tarp is a main contributor to the warmth of a hammock and works in conjunction with other pieces of specialised or regular kit. (ie. underquilts or pads/mats)

I agree with this comment. When a tarp gets caught in a gust and is cut in half, what do you have left.
Sitting in the middle of a flapping hem with nothing to protect you from the elements. In reality a tent is probably a safer option when bad weather is a possibity.

[Cocksy_86]

I also would like to mention hammock tents would be so much safer if a zombie apocalypse occurs. Being able to pitch high up in the trees is a lay down misere.

[Franco]

this is how the thread started :

im looking for a tent under 2.5kgs (i know not exactly ultralight but i dont want to compromise comfort/safety) preferably free standing, 2 man, SMALL PACK SIZE this is more important to me than weight and easy setup/ takedown lastly under $500 thanks

So , how about a bivy ?
You could buy that new Rab Master thingo so that you can tell Nuts the real size of it ....
Franco

[Nuts]

Well.. 2 stick men perhaps.. maybe double decker style (not my thing but hey..)
I waited for the posty but i guess it will be Monday The gogo does pack up tiny.. about the size of an AFL footy before I ran out of compression strap:

IMG_0172.JPG (53.28 KiB) Viewed 5191 times

[wildlight]

We use an Easton Kilo. It weighs in just under a Kg. It is freestanding, though not at its ultimate integrity in freestanding mode. What I mean by this is that the fly and the inner touch, and this can impede airflow, creating condensation problems. We don't often use pegs though- the vestibule configuration enables us to sleep with the door zipper open 30% from the top, and this generally handles condensation quite well. If there is a condensation problem, it seems to be at the "foot" end.

We have use the tent in some ugly weather. Horrendous rain, strong winds- but it's amazing what a difference proper site selection and attention to detail in pitching can make.

Don't underestimate the little tacker- we have a collection of tents, moon dance, hilleberg and others.

The Kilo seems to have been the best "all rounder with the emphasis on saving weight". Good for anywhere where you won't cop heavy snowfall. A light dusting wouldn't be an issue.

Safe Steps

WildLight

[Ent]

this is how the thread started :

im looking for a tent under 2.5kgs (i know not exactly ultralight but i dont want to compromise comfort/safety) preferably free standing, 2 man, SMALL PACK SIZE this is more important to me than weight and easy setup/ takedown lastly under $500 thanks

So , how about a bivy ?
You could buy that new Rab Master thingo so that you can tell Nuts the real size of it ....
Franco

Almost freestanding and almost two person is the MSR Nook that comes in at 1.4 kilograms. Now to make it a proper tent the optional groundsheet is required plus some additional guy lines plus pegs. So say 1.8 kg for a reasonably strong tent. Good space within the tent but the vestibule would struggle holding two packs.

Cheers