Dangers of sharing harder routes with others

[Skinky]

Although most people on here will be all too aware of this kind of thing, thought I'd share it anyway.

Whilst outlast week on the Du Cane Range with my brother, we met a Vietnamese woman from Melbourne who had been given the Du Cane Traverse route info from an online source, possibly this site.

We met on the north side of Geryon above Big Gun Pass, she enquired as to the direction and start of the pass, and we pointed it out to her. It quickly became apparent that she would not be able to negotiate or navigate the route safely, even though she had GPS, EPIRB and Maps, she was uneasy on her feet and her eyesight was questionable. We strongly advised her that this was not an easy route and that she should turn back to pine hut, she was very determined to complete it and whatever we said was not going to change that.

I rang the PAW ranger and told them the story, they said they could not intervene unless she requested help or had had an accident, so we set off. She was unable to climb Mt Massif with her pack and we were forced to carry it for her as she would have struggled on and injured herself otherwise. We setup camp in the bowl, by this point it was getting very late and all three of us were buggered.

To cut a long story short, we decided that we had done all we could, every person makes their own choices in life and although we gave advice and were genuinely concerned for her safety there was little more we could do. By carring her bag we had put our selves in danger for a person we had just met and it would be very dangerous to carry her pack with our own for the rest of the traverse, my brother had already rolled his ankle in the previous days struggle and this would have almost certainly led to further injury or worse. We continued on around the ridge and over to falling mountain, she tried to follow but was to slow and we lost sight of her on the top of Massif. We updated PAW and went on with our trip.

Don’t know what happened to the woman.

This experience highlighted to me the dangers of sharing route/track info with unknown persons and I would encourage others to think twice before doing so.

Having said that I was one of the unknown persons a couple of months back and I'm glad the info was given to me........

[wander]

That's actually a scary story.

That said it can be hard to pick, I came across a person on the Western Arthurs by themselves and 1st thought was they were going to struggle. Then watched as they cruised down a pitch we had pack hauled on as smooth as you like. The other 1/2 of the party showed up an hour later, they had been photographing.

[Tortoise]

Hi Skinky,

Thanks for posting, and for doing your best to ensure the safety of someone who was attempting something they clearly should not have been doing.

Having done lots of walking (some extended offtrack) in NSW and VIC, it's obvious to me that it's a very different thing in Tassie. While the most extreme wind / cold I've experienced was in NSW (horizontal icicles 40+cm long off all the guy ropes), it's generally bush-walking on the mainland in my experience. Many of the peaks and some off track ranges in Tassie involve some serious rock-scrambling, that is a major obstacle to a not-confident-on-heights just-missed-out-on-dwarfism-kind-of-person like me. I know it's not technically rock climbing - but it's jolly close for people like me, and can be just as significant an obstacle. The term is used in NSW and VIC, but in my experience, it's a very different thing.

So - I my thoughts are that a good question to ask before giving advice is - "What would be the hardest walk you've done in Tassie?"

I know that doesn't stop people gleaning info from sites like this. And I know it's tricky, because lots of people on this forum are able to cope well with more than i can dream of... *sigh*. BUT... if someone asks for info on an off-track or potentially challenging route, I think the safest thing is to start with the idea that they might not be experienced enough for it. Ask questions. Better that people be a bit miffed than to put themselves in a potentially dangerous / fatal situation.

I know it can be really hard for very fit, experienced Tassie bushwalkers to get how potentially dangerous some walks/scrambles can be for people without their experience / fitness. If something is not hard for you, how would you assess it?

Maybe another helpful thing could be would be to compare the said walk with, say, the Overland Track, and times / difficulty suggested If by PWS.

[Nuts]

Yes, it's a dilemma. I think the guide book authors started the ball rolling.. but here, blogs, f'book, people will take it on themselves to decide how liberal they think info swapping should be..

[nq111]

Yeah - this is a tough one.

I didn't supply this person the information but likely would have if they had contacted me (with some basic advice on conditions). The national park is a public access area - better a poorly qualified walker with reasonable information up there than a poorly qualified walker with poor information.

I don't believe withholding information on the basis that only an in-the-know community of proven walkers can access is productive (unless for genuine ecological reasons - e.g. the secrecy of the location of the Wollemi Pines).

In the end there is much information on conditions in Tasmania and it is a lack of research and preparation by the individual if they are not prepared.

People will interpret advice differently and no level of warning / advice will put all off. An issue at least in QLD is that official track descriptions and warnings can be so over the top that you just adjust your set point to ignore it (e.g. 'Difficult, highly dangerous walking for experienced fully self-sufficient walkers only' turns out to be a graded track suitable for a push scooter with a 'hazardous' small sapling over the track near the end ). So an experienced QLD walker could turn up in Tassie, read the (reasonable) warnings and conclude 'piece of cake' - because that is all they know.

The actual difficulty of the walk is very hard to communicate as it is so subjective. With the Ducane Traverse, I found it a moderate and straightforward off-track walk with the caveat that weather conditions can make it quite hard. But then I have heard (young and fit) people talk about climbing Mt Warning as if it is a life changing expedition .

Sometimes, the people that seem most convincing as very experienced actually aren't whilst the unassuming old guy with the dunlop volleys and Kmart pack ends up waiting for you to catch up at the top of each slab .

Sounds like this lady was not of a physical state to be in the bush alone, regardless of route. Perhaps she was slightly hypothermic and becoming irrational?

You did a good turn, Skinky, hope she got out OK.

[cixelsyd]

I guess I'm of the opinion that sharing information in and of itself is never a bad thing. In providing the information there is no way the provider can control how the information will be used.

In my view, people seeking the information are responsible and accountable for their own actions. You cannot prevent people from doing poorly considered things by withholding information.

[FatCanyoner]

This is part of the reason I never publish anything on my blog that could be considered track notes. There is always enough info for suitably experienced people to get inspired and do something themselves, but never enough for someone who does not have the appropriate skills to go wandering off and getting themselves into trouble. From what I can tell, it is a similar practice to most people from bushwalk.com. I think we've all seen it at times (or for those of us in a club, had to deal with people who come on trips having VASTLY exaggerated their skills and ability). People have to learn somehow, and making mistakes is part of that, but better that those mistakes are made on easier, already published routes, than on the harder end of the spectrum where *&%$#! can be deadly!

[tigercat]

I agree with those who think that track info should be shared freely within limits. The Ducane circuit is already in print in Chapman's bk and parts of it are also described in the Abel's guide. There is also information available from searching this site.
I am not sure that tasmanian bushwalkers should be a quasi secret society who only share information wiith each other.
However risks also need to be spelt out .
Cheers

[dplanet]

Just a quick note that I have been safely back from ducane range days days ago. I am sending this via my tablet on a rest day. Happy new year everyone.

[Nuts]

Haha!!

Anyhoww... just to add that 'cause it's in a guide book' doesn't mean anyone (involved in conserving fragile places (or people from themselves)) besides the author thought it was a good idea at the time.

I'd say a huge amount could be learn't building up to then doing such a walk, even taking just a map.. What is the loss? A couple of false leads, turning back if someone hasn't written that its ok to go on (they did.. ). Lots to learn, parts of it missed or left to luck. Iv'e noticed (even on the Overland Track) people gleaning more than they even read from the standard guide book.

Just my take! Nobody (here) needs to agree (or not)

[north-north-west]

For the record, I met up with your lady in the St Clair carpark, as I was packing for the same walk. She was chatty, and appeared quite unfazed about her experiences on the range. Said it had taken her 6 days to get through, although I don't know how many sidetrips that included. Although if she had trouble with Massif, I'm guessing that summitting Geryon didn't happen . . .

It's interesting, though. I found getting off Massif harder than getting up there - finding the route, that is - and the ascent of the biggest boulders below the green gully on Falling the hardest of the lot, even if it was relatively short. (Except for getting out to Macs, that is. Guide books have a lot to answer for . . . )

[Skinky]

Just a quick note that I have been safely back from ducane range days days ago. I am sending this via my tablet on a rest day. Happy new year everyone.

Please to hear you got down OK, congrats on completing the traverse, its a great route and the weather was un believeable.

Amazing how silent it was up there on that night, there was NO wind whatsoever......was spookly silent....wierd

[wayno]

you should see what climbers do in the southern alps, dont research routes , take any old route up the mountains, need rescuing. sometimes in a body bag.
three foreigners went into the hochstetter glacier at mt cook, its regarded as too dangerous to enter, they were never seen again...
someone took a wrong approach to mt aspiring which has some relatively straightforward routes. he took a very long fall and that was the end of him
cascade saddle is classic, DOC warn against doing it in the wet or snow, every year there are serious injuries from people doing it in those conditions, , snow, ice, no crampons or ice axes... steep slope... bluffs...
people are rescued and say "I had no idea it would be that bad"
not to mention the numerous people walking the tongariro alpine crossing in beach gear...
be thankful aussie landscapes werent used in the lord of the rings and the hobbits and movie buffs turn up to scale whatever peaks and ranges they can.... i had a discussion with someone about to do the cascade saddle when the forecast was rain, i told him people die in the rain on the pass. he wasnt interested in hearing it... he just looked at me like i was deliberately trying to ruin his trip....
when i was young the excuse was well there was no information about teh track we didnt know it was going to be that bad, today the amount of information on tracks is massive compared to decades ago... i've no sympathy for those who don't do their homework. if you've done your homework and are realistic what you're up against then forewarned is forearmed at least you've got some idea of what to expect and whether you want to pit yourself against it. . we're not all trying to climb K2 and you consider what people doing something like that are up against. hopefully people dont bite off too much more than they can chew...

[Ent]

It is my strong belief that you need to gradually accumulate experience of the area that you are aiming at and walking mates are the best means of doing this. Just because you are “experienced” in one area does not mean that you are for another. I personally know nothing of desert walking so would be reading long on hard, and if still interested be doing a few “safer” wanders before any epic adventures. Better still much prefer to have a companion that I trusted that knew the conditions and me to let me know if I was being overly enthusiastic.

Trouble is “longest”, “hardest”, highest”, “most challenging”, etc comments written in guide books seems to attract people that should not go bush without the company of all grandparents. Personally I have seen Chapman’s hoards been frozen, lost, running out of food, or fuel trudging along looking miserable in areas that they do not belong based on their prior, if any, experience. Lucky in Tassie the climate is “mild” so baring the more extreme weather events most muddle through.

The biggest issue I think is the variability in times. Snow or off track excursions means standard times become meaningless. I am not sure how you convey that information unless you have experienced it. Hiding information such as GPS traces or track notes IMHO is not the answer. All you can hope to do is encourage people to understand the area that they are heading for. Tackle the “it is so easy” or “you will die” type posters and hope that the overly ambitious at least think and plan for things not working out. Basically in Tassie with sensible planning and determination you will get through. The more planning and preparation the happier the experience will be.

Cheers

[Hallu]

I think Chapman's books should include two types of difficulties, navigation and physical difficulties. In his books, a walk can be graded "hard" if it's steep but easy to navigate, or hard if it's flat but hard to navigate. Hence once you did a hard steep walk on a well marked route you may (I don't) get the feeling that you can do any of his walks.

Besides, when people say it's easy to come up with info on tracks in Tasmania, I kind of disagree. I haven't seen Mt Murchison walk in any book for example, only on a couple of web sites. I think Tasmanian Parks & Wildlife service should give more info on tracks and parks, for this Parks Victoria website is perfect. For us members of this forum it's now common to ask advice to other members before going on a trip including moderate to difficult walks, but most people just use google or the Parks websites and info is sometimes scarce, unless you find the right bushwalking blog or something.

But so far I've never been attracted to off track walking. I prefer to keep to marked tracks to leave the vegetation alone, I would be drawn to it if all the tracks were crowded like it can be in Europe, but it's so easy to be alone in Australia that I never feel the need to venture far away from tracks.

[Ent]

Besides, when people say it's easy to come up with info on tracks in Tasmania, I kind of disagree. I haven't seen Mt Murchison walk in any book for example, only on a couple of web sites. I think Tasmanian Parks & Wildlife service should give more info on tracks and parks, for this Parks Victoria website is perfect.

The big issue is maps with tracks on them as Parks has a very unique view of the world of walking and actively seeks to have anything but a superhighway removed from Tasmaps. Also Tasmaps tracks bring true meaning to the word "approximate", meaning at times, "somewhere in Tasmania". I agree that Chapman is obsessed with physical rather than navigational issues and his times are rather over the shop. He tends to think that people on day three are as quick as on a day walk. In the alpine areas snow or fog outs can make track following near impossible as well as destroying any idea of time.

OSM is gradually accumulating tracks and I have put in the one to Lake Sandra on Murchison but not the one to the peak as I have not done that.

Cheers

[Nuts]

Parks has a very unique view of the world of walking and actively seeks to have anything but a superhighway removed from Tasmaps

Well, that's not really correct, in this case they show what track is available (and their view is not 'unique') unfortunately we now have the internet and largely unchallenged assumptions.

I'm aware of a few tracks removed from Tasmaps, the decisions that I know of have clearly been management oriented, obviously in consult with Parks- conservation and safety (deemed safer to remove than leave). In those few cases I would make the same decisions, even at odds with those who don't see the reasoning.

[JamesMc]

Can anyone name a National Parks service outside Tas which is as reticent about providing information to walkers? I think Tas does in fact have a unique view on the world. By providing zero information, they forfeit the opportunity to influence where people go.

By way of comparison, consider New Zealand DOC. They encourage wilderness walkers to make written reports on their walks, and these are kept in the local National Park office. If you ask about an obscure route, they'll hand you the folder.

JamesMc

[Nuts]

Is the outcome good, bad or indifferent?

Usually these topics end up in generalisations, as I said, the relevant tracks in the area ^ are on the map..

Other than that all that is missing (to me) is the opportunity to learn (not a void for the endless route notes of those with vastly differing experience). It is possible (there are some good examples in various blogs, even some routes by some book authors) to give enough info in route descriptions that a map marked route isn't needed, to me this is an independent decision very similar to those taken (by mapping authorities) to choose what info is available on maps. Personally, I don't see they (Parks/Tasmap) have a responsible option when faced with individuals taking management decisions out of their hands. Seems to me that they would be negligent if they took the same easy option others do.

[Ent]

Parks has a very unique view of the world of walking and actively seeks to have anything but a superhighway removed from Tasmaps

Well, that's not really correct, in this case they show what track is available (and their view is not 'unique') unfortunately we now have the internet and largely unchallenged assumptions.

I'm aware of a few tracks removed from Tasmaps, the decisions that I know of have clearly been management oriented, obviously in consult with Parks- conservation and safety (deemed safer to remove than leave). In those few cases I would make the same decisions, even at odds with those who don't see the reasoning.

A classic example is the track up to Long Tarn. It even had a registration booth and steel dropper markers. The Jackson Creek track had steps cut out and a lot of track work done until Parks got control. Parks' typical solution to failing infrastructure is to close a track and then find some "conservation" issue. You have a local ranger running around at the WA claiming that spudniks will not be changed when in fact that is what they hold. Tasmap conveyed to me by email that Parks as the land manager had demanded tracks removed.

Parks has a long history of failed consultative process where they make a decision and then get upset when the public finds out and hold rallies with the Smithton one being the last in a long line. No I am afraid Parks is a dead loss when it comes to consulting people and instead insults local communities by its high handed approach as witness with highland huts group long fought struggle. It is a bureaucratic organization in the fullest sense of the term and outside its pet projects more often than not fails unless a dedicated ranger or two on the ground put in the extra yards to make things right or the Minister intervenes. I have dealt with all levels of Parks an in true Weber style the higher you go the more unwillingness to do the right thing and the greater the capacity to play politics. Why is something impossible for Parks bureaucracy until an Minister is called in and then it happens complete with public opening ceremony with Parks bureaucracy claiming credit? Lady Lake Hut?

This does not mean that they do all things badly as the sixty great walks information shows some understanding of providing information but as said outside their pet projects not much information exists. Their approach is to stick their head in the mud and say and do even less. I am afraid that they have been reduced to putting up warning signs instead of constructive education so that is their sum total of safety education. An approach if private enterprise did this would bring the wrath of Workplace Standards down. Sorry until Parks stops meddling with mapping data and starts to engage in talks with Tasmanians my opinion will not change.

Regards

[Nuts]

LOL mate, as usual you have generalised over so much ground that I don't know where to start...

You may very well be right about the reasoning behind some management decisions. I suspect, however, from those few track closures/re-routes for which I am Certain of the decision process, that you may also not have the full picture for at least some those others either. My experience could be a complete anomaly (and as you know I don't have much reason at all to be an apologist for Parks) but credit where it's due..

I do find it odd, perhaps peculiar to Tassie, that so many minor operational actions are expected to be put to public consultation. As if an attempt to educate (to tertiary level) and then defer immediately to 'the loudest' based on this untested knowledge should be the norm. It's no wonder to have to approach a minister so often (as frustrating as that is).

[Ent]

Hi Nuts

Maybe too many meetings sitting down with Parks where the answer is a definitive no that after a lot of digging suddenly becomes maybe but no money so no followed by the opening ceremony resplendent in high rank bureaucrats has made me more cynical than I should be. I have on my table a Tasmap with the Truganini Track clearly mark but for bureaucrat eyes only. As I once mentioned as a Tasmanian I was free to wander the Overland Track then got charge a National Park Fee and now special track fee but if I went off season then this did not apply. Err, Um? When did Parks even attempt to convey that they were planning to reduce the season? Why in Europe do I pay a fee based on where I come from but in Tasmania Parks I pay taxes for Parks and then the full fee that anyone else pays yet I am told that my lower salary is due to my lower cost of living?

Sorry I was at a court case where the presiding legal eagle found Parks testimony a shambling ruin of cobbled together inconsistencies to have much faith in their power of righteous attention to detailed work. Does it means that they are all bad? Of course not. Some very good, capable, and dedicated people work for Parks but as with any large bureaucracy you get the complete mixture of personalities.

Personally I do tend to hold the view never put down to malice what stupidity explains and Parks' lack of information provision is likely more a factor that they have not thought about it than any genuine conspiracy. Frankly I sadly do not see the intellectual firepower for Parks to put in place the means to provide information. A simple thing could be water level monitoring points to check before planning a flood prone wander. If you are researching a wander in Tasmania the last place you generally look is Parks' website where it should be the first. Or am I wrong in that belief? All I notice is the growing number of signs with rough track ahead and falling trees warnings. Crickey we are in the bush but they thought it so important to send a team of people into the "dangerous" area to put up a sign starting the obvious!!!!!

Information is a key commodity but in Parks we have not much. Is the chain back at Hanson Peak. Err, ring them as it is not on their website. Is Mount Field road open, ring them again as it is not on their website, water at Cooks Beach, ring them as it is not on their website, etc, etc, etc. I celebrated that a few Parks employees took the effort to use this website as means of conveying information on the fires and parks closure. Great start but where was the information on other matters like reducing the fee free season for the OLT?

Cone of Silence is the general approach by Parks with information outside a few super highway walks. Tasmania is not a big place and we do have the fairest electoral system known so buried in our mindset is a deep desire to be treated as part of an extended family not resource units to be exploited by some bureaucrat climbing the ladder of their success.

Regards

[wayno]

Can anyone name a National Parks service outside Tas which is as reticent about providing information to walkers? I think Tas does in fact have a unique view on the world. By providing zero information, they forfeit the opportunity to influence where people go.

By way of comparison, consider New Zealand DOC. They encourage wilderness walkers to make written reports on their walks, and these are kept in the local National Park office. If you ask about an obscure route, they'll hand you the folder.

JamesMc

they dont keep records of peoples walks anymore and won't give any advice other than on official doc maintained tracks

[JamesMc]

It's changed since I was there 3 years ago then Wayno.


Disappointing

JamesMc

[stepbystep]

For the record I supplied dplanet with the DuCane route following a request via pm. I wasn't phased as I knew she had done untracked walks in Tasmania including the King William Range and others.
Seems she got out ok but i have had similar concerns to the OP. Perhaps I should have questioned her more deeply???
Following this episode I doubt I will share my routes unless I know the person well ....

Ent, using this thread for your typical, generalised and misinformed PWS bashing is not necessary. If you need to rant do it in the relevant thread please.

[stepbystep]

I don't believe withholding information on the basis that only an in-the-know community of proven walkers can access is productive (unless for genuine ecological reasons - e.g. the secrecy of the location of the Wollemi Pines).

Not necessarily, some routes have a mystique created by their remoteness and history. Having just completed one of Tasmania's most challenging traverses I now have a more thourough insight into this. There is no way I will provide a .gps route for this traverse unless I am 100% confident the party involved are up to the task.

To put these comments in context, if I were to give a difficulty rating to these walks I would give the DuCane traverse a 4/10 in difficulty(including the peaks) compared to a 10/10 for the PoW's.

Putting these routes in the public domain would be foolish and dangerous. Our groups beta was gleaned from multiple sources that either knew of our parties abilities and experience or extensive study of the history of the route. It was 12 months in the planning and even then we were confronted with situations that tested all of us.

My 2c worth anyhow

[ryantmalone]

I've been sitting on the fence with this one.

I think there is an element of risk with any new hike.

If I had never have challenged myself on a new track or route, I'd have only ever have walked into Lake Tarli Karng, or Wilsons Prom.

I speak to people about the places that I have been, and like helping others get to places that they have never been. That said, I ALWAYS make sure that people are aware of what can happen, and as much as there may be a lack of common sense in some people, this is always going to be their thing to deal with, and their experience to learn from.

As harsh as I sound saying that, its true.

This is coming from someone who has fallen off a cliff before. This is coming from someone who has been hypothermic before, and if I can name even half of the interesting situations that I have been in through lack of experience, or lack of knowledge of an area, I'd be writing a book.

That said... I'd be happier knowing that there was a decent amount of info out there that could help me get to where I wanted to go.

Don't get me wrong, if someone who had only just started hiking asked me about somewhere that poses a heightened element of risk, I'm always going to stress this risk first and suggest something else before I give them any information, that said... just remember what it is that drives us to climb mountains, and remind yourself that when we want to go somewhere, nothing can stop us.

At least, that applies to me.

[wayno]

at the end of the day theres no qualification criteria for going into the wilderness and anyone can walk anywhere they want in the parks. theres always going to be people who over estimate their abilities regardless of what you tell them
a few years ago a middle aged gent who was extremely experienced tramping all over nz in all conditions ignored advise not to climb the tararuas in a storm, he and his companion died of hypothermia having been trapped by bad weather and unable to get to a hut... he was wearing eight layers of clothes when he was found.... anyone can over estimate their ability, you do what you can to try and stop it happening but as an adult we are all responsible for the choices we make...

[Walk_fat boy_walk]

I usually just "lurk" on this site but I have to say the constant PAWS bashing gives me the irrates. Personally I think they do a pretty good job within the budgetary, accountability and liability confines that they are beset with. Ent et al (try saying that 3 times) cite examples such as a lack of rotation of sputniks on the WA's, whereas I can't help but be amazed at the track work along those tops... It really is a glass half empty/full thing (although to us engineer types the glass is neither half full nor half empty, just twice as big as it should be).

Without the perspective of the constrained environment in which parks operate, I'd be inclined to agree with Ent on a number of his points. His argument that the parks website should be first point of call for a prospective visitor is a valid one. NZ DoC's site not only has valuable planning information, but also up-to-date info on track statuses (eg. washouts,water levels, bridge servicability etc). And such info is not just constrained to the great walks - more out of the way walks are also described under the banner of "back country", which implies suitability only for the more experienced (which goes to the actual point of this thread).

I'd also concur that, in an ideal world, some of the less-frequented tracks would be maintained and mapped. But the reality is that if the $$$ aren't there for these types of measures, they're not going to happen... I'll just have to suck it up and continue to get my beta from other sources. Or I'll just walk the Jackson Creek track, in all its glorious disrepair, coz I know I can deal with it. Those that can't, don't - like others on this thread have said we're all grown-ups and we all make our own choices based on the information we have.

It is true that it isn't all just a funding issue. To become the kind of proactive service that Ent seems to suggest PAWS should be (such as NZ DoC - although I'm sure they have their critics my experiences are overwhelmingly positive), there would need to be an attitudinal/cultural shift, but like any bureaucracy funded on a shoestring they are flat out meeting "business as usual" objectives, so any internal reform or "above and beyond" initiatives, however well-intentioned, go in the "nice to have" pile and don't see the light of day.

This is beyond parks' control - it's not as if they can simply ask for more from the state coffers? Maybe we could cut more from the Police? Could lobby the fedrel gummint to send more GST revenue downrange, just to enhance Tassie's image as the "sponge" on the national economy Getting silly now, but the point is there's always a bigger picture and the criticisms of parks are largely symptomatic of Tassie being broke. Not much they can do about that.

I say suck it up and enjoy what's there. These really are first world problems. Now what was the point of this thread again?

//end rant

[wayno]

dont know how DOC will pan out in the future, govt cut their budget massively by 56 million a year, they have massive areas to look after they have ripped out bridges and hut all over the place and continue to want to do so despite process they are getting into bed with commercial operaters including mining companies in some cases to allow unique doc land to be open cast mined... they are allowing concessions in parks to very big tourist operators some who want to tear up the landscape in a major way to get massive no's of passive tourists passing through parks...
the pressure is on to turn the hollyford track into a public road...., put a tunnel for a major bus route in at the head of the routeburn through to the hollyford, cut down forest for a monorail. the main tourist industry has the money that doc needs but they'd operate a disneyland in a national park if they could get away with it, just to make a buck.....