Camping fees for Victorian National Parks

[neilmny]

I found out a bit of background to this proposal today.

Firstly, don't blame Parks Victoria. My information is that it was proposed from the Minister's office and senior people in Parks and Department of Environment and Primary Industries (DEPI) were forced to sign confidentiality agreements prior to being briefed on the details (so much, yet again, for open and transparent government). Furthermore, the details of the proposal were leaked to the media, forcing the Minister to publicly release the full details before he was ready to do so.

I can't see that anyone here has had a crack at or suggested that Parks is at fault.

Now while this may look political it is not, it is a rant against the whole show not any specific party.

This fees for camping bizzo is clearly another accountants approach to the meaning of life.......you have to pay no matter what.
Well I'd like to know what our taxes pay for if not for things like Parks Vic. Is the revenue gathered purely for the purpose of
paying these do nothing parliamentary bludgers to sit and play schoolyard titt for tatt games all day in the "house" or go on fact
finding junkets to China and elsewhere. In my 41 years of being a voter I have never seen such inactivity.
Does anyone even know who their local state member or opposition member is?
Has there been anything achieved of note by this parliament?

Somebody please tell me that I may feel my taxes have not been paid for nothing.

[bernieq]

Bushwalking Victoria will be making a detailed submission in response to this proposal

Chris, thanks in advance for the submission that Bushwalking Victoria will make to the DEPI.

The RIS (regulatory impact statement) has the look and feel of a quickly assembled document and seems to have a number of errors and internal contradictions. I note that the document does not list the public as one of the key stakeholders !

I’m sure Bushwalking Victoria’s submission will be comprehensive but my perspective is very much focused on distributed camping (basic/very basic in the DEPI document).

The document highlights the confusion arising from multiple fee rates (12, it states – ranging from $5.60 to $48 / night) but proposes 36 camping fees, 20 camping passes and a plethora of special fees. Then multiply by peak, shoulder and off-peak !

The state by state cost comparison (Table 12) is simply wrong.
In Victoria, the proposal is for $13/night. This compares (supposedly) with Tasmania at $37/night. Rubbish – an 8 week pass costs $30 and would allow me to camp at $0.53/night.
For NSW, $65 will get me an annual pass for access to all NPs (except Kosciuszko) - just 5 nights camping in Victoria at $13 / night.
The document indicates that a camping pass for dispersed camping will be considered in the future (page ix) but then prices this at $43.50 for an annual pass (p xiii) (or $13 / night).

The document is not realistic in it’s claim to be mindful of market rates. $13/night for no facilities is outrageous – but calling Grampians NP facilities (eg Plantation, Borough Huts, Jimmy Creek) high service level is indefensible. These campgrounds have pit toilets and a water tank (that is not serviced) - $50 for this is not market rates – I can get a motel room in Ballarat for that cost.

I admit that I’m not hopeful.

[Hallu]

Yep at these rates, we may as well all leave the NPs campgrounds and go to caravan parks. It'll turn out to be either this or fraud... Prices have already gone up in the last year, by as much as 40% in some places, so this increase is out of order. Give us annual passes and decent prices and sod off.

[Lophophaps]

Could or should BWV and VNPA advise the media, especially The Age, about this issue? The Liberal party is meant to have astute financial skills, but as bernieq points out, the figures are terribly suss.

[tastrax]

The state by state cost comparison (Table 12) is simply wrong.
In Victoria, the proposal is for $13/night. This compares (supposedly) with Tasmania at $37/night. Rubbish – an 8 week pass costs $30 and would allow me to camp at $0.53/night.
For NSW, $65 will get me an annual pass for access to all NPs (except Kosciuszko) - just 5 nights camping in Victoria at $13 / night.
The document indicates that a camping pass for dispersed camping will be considered in the future (page ix) but then prices this at $43.50 for an annual pass (p xiii) (or $13 / night).

There are additional camping charges over and above your Parks Pass in Tasmania in many locations (albeit not remote walker campsites (other than Overland Track)).

http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/?base=412

[Hallu]

There are yes, but I've never seen a Tassie campsite at more than 20 $ a night... most are 16 $ a night for powered sites, 13$ for unpowered. Only Mt Field amount to 20 $. The 37 $ price they've come up with is actually the combined fee of a day pass to enter a Tassie national park, plus one night camping (24 $ + 13 $). That doesn't reflect the reality of most tourists at all, as most buy a 2 month holiday pass, and locals always have their annual pass... This is just manipulating numbers to justify 30+ $ camping fees in Vic parks...

[cherryw]

Check out the prices from Falls Creek to Hotham with a stay at Cope and Dibbins, $30 to stay at each site. So to do this walk they are going to charge $60. What is to stop anyone from camping 100m away from these sites, will they still charge you?
http://parkstay.vic.gov.au/accom_rates/falls-to-hotham-alpine-crossing/

[Lophophaps]

In some popular places there's a need for regulation of numbers. The Milford Track, Wilsons Prom and the OLT are good examples. Whilst some dislike it, without this sort management there would be unhappiness. But for the rest of it, there's a book that describes the way we walk: The freedom of the hills. The party may intend to get to Cope, but fast legs mean that they can go to the next camp site, or bad weather may mean that the party stops short of Cope.

And how in hell can a booking be confirmed? What if a large school group swamps the site, unknown to management? Who will be at the site to check availability on the day? How can the rules be enforced? The idea is preposterous.

I don't mind paying a fair fee, like $30 in Tassie for a few months, or the OLT or Milford. But $30/night for essentially a picnic ground with hard boards? And a fireplace? Is not Cope FSOA, or at least fires are discouraged? Good grief! The whole thing looks too much like a caravan park. No, I think I'll find a nice spot a the snowgums, far from the madding crowds, away from usual campsites, and spend the $30 on something useful.

[neilmny]

Hold on......aren't these huts safety refuges?
So a person staggers out of the wilderness looking for refuge and if they have no booking
they cannot stay?
Also Parks charge 50% for a cancellation or within 30 days of booking no refund what so ever
....a caravan park will refund 100% up to 7 days before a booking and charge 40% if you cancel after that.
My understanding was that these charges were to bring Parks into line with Caravan Parks.

[Travis22]

I don't fancy paying to camp in the ANP. We'd get out and about at least 20 weekends of the year and never use any facilities and may or may not be on track.

They are dreaming if the think any frequent bush users out there are going to start paying nightly rates.

If they come up with a very reasonable annual fee I'd consider it but otherwise they can shove it.

Travis

[scroggin]

I can't see how they will police it for remote camping when you don't have to pay an entry fee.

[neilmny]

I reckon they'll focus on the best and occasionally check the rest. (Sorry rhyme was not intended)

[walk2wineries]

Free/dispersed camping doesn't mean no costs - its still necessary to do things like monitor the water and (regrettably) remove litter; feral animal control etc.
I don't mind user pays - taxes support the parks but those who don't use them ought not to need to subsidise access roads/car parks etc for those who do.
I have wondered though, about
i)if we can't have a National pass, how about a discount for those who hold year passes in their state of origin? I can't be in all states at the same time, if I've paid for SA and spend half a year in NSW....
ii) Discount for those who spend time (documented) doing work with conservation park LandCare groups etc and/or the ability for low income earners - gosh, for anyone really - to "pay" by volunteering services instead of money. Eg - full day spent clearing blackberries from a national park - and you know, if the landcare or bushwalking or Heysen Trail etc groups organised it there need not even be much in the way of running costs.

[Lophophaps]

I have wondered though, about
i)if we can't have a National pass, how about a discount for those who hold year passes in their state of origin? I can't be in all states at the same time, if I've paid for SA and spend half a year in NSW....
ii) Discount for those who spend time (documented) doing work with conservation park LandCare groups etc and/or the ability for low income earners - gosh, for anyone really - to "pay" by volunteering services instead of money. Eg - full day spent clearing blackberries from a national park - and you know, if the landcare or bushwalking or Heysen Trail etc groups organised it there need not even be much in the way of running costs.

Good ideas. The first is akin to peak car bodies that allow members of other similar bodies to use their services, typically roadside repairs. The second is fair. I've planted a few trees and getting something back in kind would be nice.

[paidal_chalne_vala]

I oppose having to pay $30 clams to camp at Dibbin's hut, Federation hut , Gantner Hut , Roper's hut, Cleve Cole hut etc.
Today : $30 clams tomorrow it will only become more.
One thing is true. Trying to get the rangers to run around being camping permit nazis is just insane and ludicrous. Another matter is that some of these places outside of the peak periods are rather quiet and remote and it is unlikely the rangers have the time, pay or patience to chase hikers and other park users in remote bush areas for money. I mean out past the Crosscut saw heading for Mt Buggery , who is going to catch you there and say cough up , where is your permit ?
This all stinks of Spring street f*ckers cooking up Yes Minister schemes for places that they will never visit and have no interest in aside from the bottom $$$ Line.

[neilmny]

This is what has happened, it is now the Falls to Hotham Alpine Crossing.
http://parkweb.vic.gov.au/explore/parks ... e-crossing

"A permit is required to camp on the Falls to Hotham Alpine Crossing"

[paidal_chalne_vala]

around the River flats near Dibbin's hut there are plenty of usable but secluded flat 'campsites' near the Cobungra river and the river footbridge and not too far from the pit loo. I know I won't camp near the hut If I am up that way this summer.

[neilmny]

The rule seems to be no camping within 200 metres of the official camp sites at Dibbins and Cope.

[Moondog55]

Total and utter BS
For $30- I want hot and cold running water and flush toilets and there is no way I will ever pay to camp along the AWT

[neilmny]

There seems to be some sort of commercial connection to the Falls Hotham walk. I received an email advertsing it as a summer thing to do from Falls Creek. There is a pick up service at the other end for single day walkers.
http://www.fallscreek.com.au/AlpineCrossingOpen

[Moondog55]

OK I wish to be "Enlightened" What is revolutionary about the camping platforms??
$800,000- for upgrades? Sounds like a Defence Department $300- toilet seat to me, are they paying labourers $85- an hour these days?
I walked from Hotham to Falls Creek the year before last and the only improvements I thought were needed were a few retro-reflective markers and a couple of new snow poles

[neilmny]

I'd say $10000 per hour to build a few tent platforms. for $800000

[paidal_chalne_vala]

Yes the whole thing sucks. Because there is less snow every year the people* who run the winter resorts want to bleed us summer hikers dry !
*[Edited by Admin]

[sim1oz]

I walked Pretty Valley to Hotham late last year (Nov 2012), and hope to do it again in the next few months so it will be interesting to 'see' what upgrades have been made to the track which cost so much money. I guess we'll just find other places to camp along the way, though I had originally pegged staying near Dibbins Hut and Cobungra River as a nice place which our kids would enjoy. I'd be happy to pay an annual fee, within reason, to support the conservation of nature in our National Parks, but I wouldn't want that to be an excuse for the government of the day to strip away the already-diminished funding for Parks Vic. I don't mind paying for use if that means the huts and designated campsites are better maintained but I agree with other posts that the amount charged needs to be properly calibrated across the state for facilities provided. We prefer bushcamping away from facilities anyway, and if the fees get crazy it will just encourage more stealth camping. The involvement of Falls Creek Resort Management does make me cynical about this specific situation.

[Kinsayder]

What does this mean for people who stay in the huts? I know they are for "emergency use only" but I unashamedly sleep in them. Does that mean that they're completely off-limits?

[sim1oz]

I suspect it means that Cope Hut and Dibbins Hut are now 'off limits' though that still leaves you plenty of other huts to sleep in. Try Cope Saddle hut!

[stry]

I'm not opposed in principle to something like an annual pass at a REASONABLE price. It would need to go on one's car to be relevant or enforceable, I think. I also agree that it would be nice if any such fee didn't simply disappear into consolidated revenue

As for nightly fees to sleep off track in the bush - good luck with collecting on that !!! I think that the success level wouldn't be much higher at Cope and Dibbins.

I don't think that I will be including such fees in my budgeted living expenses !!!

[Lophophaps]

The fees are mad. For $10-15 you get an unpowered caravan park site, and for $30 two months in Tassie parks. I can't recall camping at Cope Hut - it's a bit exposed. There are many other places nearby, say 500 metre, that have better camping. As for Falls-Hotham being an iconic walk ... news to me. Will the rangers have 200 metre tape measures? This should be essential kit, along with a tent, stove, EFT machine, and a machine that generates infringement notices.

[dplanet]

The fees are mad. For $10-15 you get an unpowered caravan park site

Do agree. Just back from Genoa River Gorge, it was $10 for 2 persons at Cann River Camp Ground, which used to be a caravan park. Booking was not needed and is managed by the pub located just on the other side of the road.

[scroggin]

around the River flats near Dibbin's hut there are plenty of usable but secluded flat 'campsites' near the Cobungra river and the river footbridge and not too far from the pit loo. I know I won't camp near the hut If I am up that way this summer.

I was at Dibbins Hut a couple of nights a go and the sign says you can't camp within 100m of the platforms, but the Hut is about 200m away, so there is no problem camping near the hut.