Shooting in Vic Parks

[sim1oz]

We heard gun shots last time we were walking in Werribee S.P. It sounded so close to us but we couldn't see anyone. I wonder whether the sound is distorted by the topography, eg. river and cliff faces? Anyway, we definitely felt better once we were back at the car. Fear, yes. Irrational, probably. The problem is I have no idea of who is behind a gun and whether they are responsible hunters or the not-so-good type. So I do understand why people become worried when they hear hunting shots whilst out bushwalking.

Neilmy, your story illustrates a complete (and quite disgusting) lack of consideration for others. It's a shame to hear such things have happened. In my mind, the key point is that with a growing population there will be more people using our national and state parks and courtesy and consideration of others makes it much more pleasant for all.

I hope we never have someone accidentally shot by a hunter in Victoria, but the risk is still there. We choose where and when we walk very carefully now, especially when we take our kids.

[sambar358]

To a large degree Parks Vic is responsible for a lot of mis-information about the legality of sambar deer hunting in much of the Alpine National Park and despite plenty of effort by our key hunting organisations you will not see deer hunting mentioned as a legitimate (and legal) recreational activity in any Parks Vic literature on on their website. Once in the ANP it is common also to see signage indicating "No Dogs Cats & Firearms" which to most visitors to the ANP obviously indicates (incorrectly) that hunting is not permitted. Basically it's about time Parks Vic got their head around the fact that recreational deer hunting has been permitted in most units of the ANP since it's declaration 25+ years ago. They need to remove misleading signage in the ANP and start embracing the fact that deer hunting is a permitted activity within the Park at certain times of the year (February 15- Dec 15). By continually failing to publically acknowledge deer hunting as one of the approved activity within the ANP Parks Vic are perpetuating the perception by many that deer hunters in the ANP are in there acting illegally.

At the moment there are in excess of 25,000 licenced recreational deer hunting in Victoria and this number is increasing annually at around 10%. The vast majority of these are just normal every-day people who enjoy the challenge of being in wild places and spending time in the bush.....there may even be one living next door to you or (in my case) teaching your kids. Like everything these days there will always be a small minority who choose not to follow the rules and in doing that they tar us all with the same brush in the eyes of some. Certainly hunting with dogs (hounds or gundogs) is prohibited in any part of the ANP as is of course is the presence of any sort of dog including the family pet taken in for a camping/day trip by a non-hunter. Stalking (quiet bush hunting usually by a lone hunter) is the only approved method of hunting in the ANP and this is ONLY for sambar deer...we are not permitted by law to shoot feral animals encountered such as wild dogs, cats, foxes, rabbits, pigs etc. Generally sambar deer hunters fire very few shots at deer in a given year & some none at all, so incidences of numerous shots fired is usually a sign of someone up to no good....a vandal with a firearm like the "sign shooter" depicted in an earlier post.

I am permitted to walk a road, track or trail with a firearm in a legal hunting area but I am not permitted to hunt/shoot off it and my firearm must be completely unloaded while I'm doing that. I occasionally use "buswalking tracks" to get to and from my hunting areas in the ANP and while doing this I've met a few individuals & several parties of walkers & mountain bike riders over the years and most will stop and have a chat for a few minutes. Certainly some have been initially a bit confronted by a bloke with a rifle but this is quite natural I'd think as almost all have been totally unaware that hunting was permitted in these areas thanks to a lack of truthful information from the land manager...Parks Vic. So in reality.....most people walking in the ANP in the major catchments and alpine areas from mid February to mid December will likely be sharing that country with a hunter or two and this has been going on for 25+ years. Maybe one day Parks Vic will finally officially acknowledge this by including seasonal sambar deer stalking in the ANP along with all the other recreational activities that they seem comfortable to promote in their literature and on the Parks Vic website....but I won't be holding my breath waiting for that to happen. Cheers

s358

[Avatar]

Is shooting allowed at Mt Stirling? Heard shooting and saw the rifle at King Saddle Shelter last weekend as I was walking down from the summit. This is inside the Mt Stirling Alpine Resort area according to my SV map.

[sambar358]

Avatar....any form of hunting and the carrying of a firearm in any of the designated Victorian Alpine Resort areas is prohibited....period ! A distinction should be made between an Alpine Resort such as Mt Sterling, Mt Hotham, Falls Creek etc as these resorts have designated boundaries usually within the Alpine National Park and often once "in the Park" seasonal sambar deer hunting by stalking is permitted. But certainly.....no hunting/firearms in the Resort areas. I'm not familiar with Mt Stirling at all being from "over the big hill" to the south but looking it up on Park Web clearly the King Saddle Shelter is inside the Mt Sterling Alpine Resort area.....so no guns, shooting or hunting permitted.

Most of us would carry mobile phones these days and coverage is pretty good in the alpine areas and I would suggest it's a good idea to have a few key numbers on your phone such as regional Parks Vic offices, local Police, PV Rangers etc and certainly the Parks Vic hotline relevant to the reporting of illegal/suspicious activity in Parks.....131963. Often a quick ring-in to a local PV office, Police or the hotline will get a reasonably prompt response should anyone witness illegal or inappropriate activities in any of our Parks or pubic areas. These days I tend to be fairly pro-active with this sort of stuff and if I can just ring it in on the mobile....take a few key details such as location, time, vehicle rego number, who & what's going on etc.....then make the call. Let the authorities deal with them....there are far too many idiots about these days to take the risk with confronting people clearly doing the wrong thing IMO. Cheers

s358

[Avatar]

Thanks for the info sambar. They also had a brindle dog - indeterminate breed - Staffie type that gave me the eyeball. 3 4WDs Looks like they camped there the Saturday night. Numerous shots being fired in pairs. I take it that the shots were target practice, but was definitely concerned at their close vicinity as I was coming down the walking track from the summit. That number is now in my phone. The State Forest boundary goes near Razorback Hut and loops around to a point not that far from the Saddle.

[sambar358]

Avatar....a number of issues with those blokes that the authorities would have a go at : possession of a firearm & shooting in a prohibited area, dog at large in Park & most likely shooting trees or other fixtures in a Park if they were banging-away from camp. Even in the hunting sectors of the ANP we are only permitted to discharge the firearm at a deer, no sighting-in or "target parctice", no shooting around camp etc.....random gunfire spooks the deer and of course also spooks other bush users which is also inapproriate behaviour that does us no favours with the public. Deer hunters ? Maybe but likely not.....idiots with a firearm....most certainly !

These days what Rangers and Police generally do when interviewing these types is GPS their exact location to be 100% sure that they are geographically out-of-order as often Park/Resort boundaries can be unclear on the ground (although that's no defence for the perps) then they'll deal with the specifics of the situation. I think if a few more people got involved in actually reporting these sorts of things when they are happening it would make some difference. There are signficant penatlies for this sort of stuff including heavy fines and confiscation of equipment and with the good mobile phone coverage we have in many remote areas these days it's worth making the effort to call these things in and get someone with the expertise and authority to deal with it promptly. Cheers

s358

[neilmny]

I'd call police, Parks won't do anything, we know this from experience.
We also saw that crew with dog boxes they were deer hunters, when we were going into Pineapple Flat, didn't waste our time reporting it. Might sound defeatist but when you report a serious breach with lots of detail and don't even get a response........why bother.

[Travis22]

Sadly unless the Police are on scene or someone is injured they will most likely do nothing regardless of how strong your evidence is.

I know its going to sound bad but IMO i can only assume they regard idiots 'target' shooting in NPs, illegal spotlighting in the NPs, Illegal hound hunting in the NPs as a very low priority and maybe they are right - well not right but im sure they are spread to thin, underplayed and well 99% of the time they do their jobs only to be let down by the court system anyways?

As ive said before a few times here one is a 1,000,000 times more likely to die in a car crash on their way to a bushwalking trip then from a hunters bullet - even if you hear a gunshot or two while out walking.

.............

Personally i would LOVE to see these clowns loose their firearms license along with their firearms, and their 4wd's in most cases. There is a pretty typical mold which these fools fit into and they dont do any one any favors by their actions (leaving rubbish in the bush, driving off track, track damage, bush destruction not to mention firearms offenses etc...)

Fortunately they are often to lazy too go far from camp thus they dont tarnish bushwalkers names like they do genuine 4x4ing enthusiasts and deer stalkers.

Travis.

[sambar358]

Neil.....the way to stop this sort of stuff certainly is to report it....even if that can't be done until you get home or can get to an area that has phone reception. Failing to report illegal activity just allows the perps to get away with it and they'll most likely do it again. Cetainly enforcement is thin on the ground but they will do follow-ups if given good solid information such as vehicle rego numbers, exact location, type of offence etc. Yep....your report might not get instant results or get these people into court but most likely they'd have a visit from the Police and be asked to explain their actions or deny involvement etc. This might just spook some of these people enough to discourage a repeat effort.

Why bother ? Well I guess just for the peace-of-mind that you actually did do something rather than just let it go on unchecked. At the very least these incidents are logged by the Land Mangers as some sort of breach of the rules so they know what happened and where....this might promote a bit more activity in that area by local PV Rangers or that area may be included on enforcement patrols by DEPI and Police in the future. I wouldn't advise anyone to get into a confrontation with someone that you suspect of acting illegally in a Park etc no matter who they are or what they are getting up to.....just take note of a few important details regarding who,what and where and then report it to the relevant authorities when you can. Cheers

s358

[neilmny]

...........Why bother ? Well I guess just for the peace-of-mind that you actually did do something rather than just let it go on unchecked. At the very least these incidents are logged by the Land Mangers as some sort of breach of the rules so they know what happened and where....this might promote a bit more activity in that area by local PV Rangers or that area may be included on enforcement patrols by DEPI and Police in the future. I wouldn't advise anyone to get into a confrontation with someone that you suspect of acting illegally in a Park etc no matter who they are or what they are getting up to.....just take note of a few important details regarding who,what and where and then report it to the relevant authorities when you can. Cheers

s358

The why bother is sour grapes sambar, you'd reckon some sort of response to a very detailed report that was put in to a number of appropriate authorities after a month.
Even a note saying "mind your own *&%$#! business" would do.
100% agree with don't confront the buggers, anyone who has no regard for the law is not going to welcome a bloke armed with a back pack and walking poles passing an opinion on there activities.
Surruptitiously get some details and pass them on to the police.

[stry]

I understand the "sour grapes" aspect completely Neil.

As a society I think we do need to report these things, as well as other things, like vandalism on trains and assault. If we just roll over and accept it, the only way is downhill. Obviously it is foolish to confront, whether in the bush, in a train, or on the street, but "speaking out" doesn't need to be confrontational or risky.

When something happens, the weight of all those reports can provide, incrementally, a much clearer picture of what the offender has been up to. Without that info, when something eventually happens, the offender is treated as a "misunderstood" first offender.

It can be very frustrating, as both Parks and Vic Police aren't exactly over resourced, but rural police stations (I think it would be Mansfield for Pineapple Flat) definitely do not like this offending and are usually very grateful for ANY info, let alone the level of detail that you were able to provide. Frequently these little pieces of info that are reported can be the missing piece of a puzzle, or make a larger picture much clearer for the police.

Requesting and making sure that you get, some written acknowledgement of your report can help your report to actually go somewhere. This isn't always necessary but if the person to whom you are reporting, be it Parks or Vic Pol, seems reticent about actually doing any work, (IE slack) obtaining a written response can encourage, but not guarantee, some accountability.

Stick with it

[sambar358]

Neil....I agree with you 100% there. I've had a few instances where DSE or PV Rangers were pretty indifferent to reports of wrong-doing behind closed gates or inappropriate hunting practices in their patch but also I've had some good responses too and some pretty prompt follow-ups and a couple of busts as a result of my efforts so it has probably balanced-out over the years. Unfortunately the courts often beat these individuals over the head with a feather duster and offer no real discoragement for them not to re-offend.....often blokes lumbered for hound hunting in the ANP, illegal spotlighting or road closure breaches are repeat offenders. Copping a $100 fine with no loss of equipment, firearm & shooters licence is just a joke and must be a disappointing outcome for the PV Rangers or Police after all the work they do getting these blokes to court.

Fortunately though these incidents are farily isolated and most hunters maintain a very low profile in the ANP and the majority of visitors would be unaware of their presence in the bush. But having said that though....experiencing this first-hand is unpleasant, certainly spoils your outdoor experience and understandably makes people wary of the possbility that they may be sharing the bush with someone with a firearm.....which from my perspective as a safe and responsible hunter is unfortunate. Well....from half an hour after sunset this Sunday December 15th NO HUNTING is permitted anywhere in the ANP until February 15th and in reality most hunters start well after that date....usually around May. So "safe walking" to all over the summer....but watch-out for the wriggle-sticks ! Cheers

s358

[Travis22]

It's incredibly frustrating alright. I cannot help but wonder to what degree will we only continue to see more and more 'hunters' do the wrong thing as the policing of current laws as they stand is almost non existent. And as u confirmed Doug? the court system is even worse at deterring others from doing the wrong thing.

Travis.